Message to Ford / SVT / Hau Tai Tang

[slow lane]

Orders for the Shelby GT500 should be opened to current SVT owners first.

Much like what was done for the roll out of the latest Viper, to maintain the goodwill and loyalty of current owners, let us order ahead of time.

Better yet, let us chose a dealer to order from as a final reward to the good SVT dealers whose customers actually still hold some goodwill toward them.

If you distribute these cars the way that my dealership is indicating where they may only get two or three. Most dealers are almost guaranteed to sell the cars to friends or family or put a "market adjustment" of many thousands of dollars on these cars.

There are multiple SVT (former SVT) dealers in the North and Northwest suburbs of Chicago who sold the 2003-04 Cobras at or below MSRP from the moment they were able to be ordered. The current plan for distributing these cars seems to almost guarantee enormous gouging if the total production is held to 7500.

[cobramach]

I agree 100%, but they won't do it. I don't think dealers care that much about customer loyalty. Just my cynical two cents.

[SnkBtn99]

You are not being cynical .... just truthfull ..... Its all about the $$ today .... Loyalty means nothing anymore ...

[keilhauer]

I've noticed that customers are less loyal (not all, but it's becoming more prevalent) as time goes by. Dealers actually have to work harder to retain business. We have about a 60-70% retention rate because of how we treat our customers.

Think about your parents (for people like me who are boomers). My dad was a loyal GM buyer and actually went through the ranks like GM wants their customers to go. By a Chev, move up to an Olds, then a Pontiac and a Buick. His last two have been Caddies. That is the ideal GM customer. He didn't always have a great car, but he was LOYAL.

Now, you get kids buying everywhere. One day a Honda, then a Pontiac, then a Toyota. They're all over the map and there is NO LOYALTY to the Brand anymore, UNLESS YOU TREAT YOUR CUSTOMER WITH RESPECT. I've been both sides of the desk, and being on this side, I know how hard I have to work to both get AND retain a customer.

Are you loyal to Ford? Or did you buy an SVT because it was cool and have a Chev or Dodge or something else as an everyday driver? I have nothing but Ford in my driveway. When I did have something else, it was a Chevy beater for the winter when the Mustang was in storage. And it was a Chevy because 1) it was my parents previous car given to me (a 10-year old Monza) 2) the other was my friends Chevette and it was cheap and didn't cost me a dime.

[SnkBtn99]

My current stable :

SVT Cobra
'65 Convertible
F150 FX4
Explorer

I am loyal to Ford .... I have tried others, and yes, including foreign and was not impressed with what I got. I always wound up going back to Ford. I have not turned back.

[keilhauer]

Sorry, I didn't mean to direct that specifically to you. I meant it as a general question for everyone to think about that reads these forums. Thanks for the insight. It's great to know there are loyal Ford customers out there, though.

[deactivated]

I'd say I'm loyal within the ford family, just because they share platforms across brands. So I would not be abject to a Volvo or a Mazda. A X-Type R would be nice too :D

[mcflysvt04]

And could you please upgrade the front seats to Recaro's. My friend had a 79 Mustang. I think they even called it a Cobra. It sold for under $15,000 and it had real Recaro seats. You mean to tell me on a $40k Mustang Cobra we cant get real driving seats. Come on SVT you guys are penny pinching

[deactivated]

a 79 mustang had recaro seats? hmm...never heard that one.

[mcflysvt04]

I think they also called it a Cobra not an SVT just a Cobra. It had a 5.0 in it

[cobraken]

In the past 2 years I have bought 4 brand new vehicles. Dodge (Viper), Honda (V-6 EX Accord coupe), Harley Davidson (softail Deluxe), & Ford (Saleen Cobra S-281 speedster).I would say that Dodge is trying the hardest to show loyalty to their customers & Ford the least. Harley & Honda seem to expect loyalty although I would rank Harley as a very surprisingly 2nd as the experience I have had w/ my dealer have been exceptional.

When Dodge has come out w/ a new Viper model or limited edition it is usually offered to current Viper owners 1st. And when I attended a Viper Owners Invitational among other goodies we received a transferrable "coupon" for the purchase of a new vehicle @ 1% over manufacturer's invoice.

Loyalty is earned & showing loyalty to a customer usually helps keep it.

[mcflysvt04]

Yeah I just checked it. In 1979 Ford built the Mustang Cobra Indy Pace car & it had Recaro aseats in it. It also has a nasty looking Cobra on the hood like the Trans Ams use to have. Do you want me to send you the link?

[deactivated]

no I've seen that, it sounds like the Mustang Cobra one of the guys from Ford has, seen one at CLT. Just didn't know Recaro had been doing seats that long.

And yes it isn't an SVT, that thing even pre-dates SVO.

[cobramach]

Are you loyal to Ford? Or did you buy an SVT because it was cool and have a Chev or Dodge or something else as an everyday driver? I have nothing but Ford in my driveway.

Keilhauer-

I have read many of your posts. I understand and really appreciate hearing your perspective. I know you guys deal with a lot of jerks and deadbeats. I try not to be one of them and I do not set foot in an open dealership unless I am ready for action (thank God for the Sunday laws in Colorado).

That being said..........I have been a Stang freak offically since April 1969 when I saw a brand new shiny and wet red Mach 1 on a rainy night in the parking lot of the Cheyenne, Wyoming, Safeway grocery. I have owned a total of six Mustangs more or less consecutively/continuously since I was 17 and I am 43 now. I have a well worn 93 F-150 4x4 as a daily driver. I am 100% Ford.

Now, there have been past transgressions. My wife bought a Suzuki Sidekick while I was away for two months, partly because I wasn't home to stop her, partly out of defiance to my Ford nature. My first vehicle at 16 was a 71 GMC 1/2 ton, which did not take with me. It was a hand me down. I tried to love it, but I just couldn't.

I am a loyal Ford owner to a fault. Reading your posts, I think you are somewhat unique as a car dealer. The guy from Phil Long Ford Denver in my gouging post was fairly typical of many dealers down here, although not all(Phil Long in Colorado Springs seems a little different) . Most of the high volume dealers down here would not care less if I ever bought another vehicle from them again and the little guys are basically gone. Consequently, I have never been a repeat buyer at any dealership in the Denver area. I would like to be! My last experience wasn't too bad. It all depends on the markup.

[Sharppony]

Keilhauer-

I am a loyal Ford owner to a fault. Reading your posts, I think you are somewhat unique as a car dealer. Most of the high volume dealers down here would not care less if I ever bought another vehicle from them again and the little guys are basically gone. Consequently, I have never been a repeat buyer at any dealership in the Denver area. I would like to be! My last experience wasn't too bad. It all depends on the markup.

I agree, loyalty is somewhat a two way street. I have bought more Fords then I can remember, but I've never bought from the same dealer twice! Most of the small dealers that I have bought from are constantly changing names and management. Why is that?

[Venom460]

no I've seen that, it sounds like the Mustang Cobra one of the guys from Ford has, seen one at CLT. Just didn't know Recaro had been doing seats that long.

And yes it isn't an SVT, that thing even pre-dates SVO.


The cobra you are referring to at CLT is a 1978 King Cobra. Not the same car as the Pace Car.

[keilhauer]

In the past 2 years I have bought 4 brand new vehicles. Dodge (Viper), Honda (V-6 EX Accord coupe), Harley Davidson (softail Deluxe), & Ford (Saleen Cobra S-281 speedster).I would say that Dodge is trying the hardest to show loyalty to their customers & Ford the least. Harley & Honda seem to expect loyalty although I would rank Harley as a very surprisingly 2nd as the experience I have had w/ my dealer have been exceptional.

When Dodge has come out w/ a new Viper model or limited edition it is usually offered to current Viper owners 1st. And when I attended a Viper Owners Invitational among other goodies we received a transferrable "coupon" for the purchase of a new vehicle @ 1% over manufacturer's invoice.

Loyalty is earned & showing loyalty to a customer usually helps keep it.

This sounds more like marketing than 'loyalty'. Dodge is having to 'buy' their customers loyalty to come back, rather than letting their product speak for itself, which is what should happen. As for giving current product owners first crack at a new one, Ferrari has been doing this for years, so the concept is nothing new. However, how many Ferrari 'owners' actually drive the car, as opposed to putting them away til the next model comes out and selling the original for the same price they paid for it?

The problem you run into with '1% over invoice' is that when that buyer wants to trade or sell the car, they expect top dollar or more. Is that fair when they didn't pay full price for it in the first place? Sure, you can say buyer beware for the used car, but how many of you will sell your car below market value rather than try to get as much as you can for it? Does that make you any different from a dealer wanting to get 'sticker' for the car? I think not.

[cobraken]

The '78 King Cobra did not have Recaro seats. I believe they were an extra cost option in '79 if you ordered a pace car replica or the Cobra option. I believe Recaros were standard in the original turbo 4 SVO's.

[keilhauer]

I think they also called it a Cobra not an SVT just a Cobra. It had a 5.0 in it

The '79 Pace Car was actually available with two engines: the 5.0 V8 and a Turbo 2.3 I4. If memory serves correct, it was never refered to as a Cobra, simply a 1979 Mustang Indianapolis Pace Car.

There was a Cobra in Canada for 1985-86. This was a sticker only applied to the rear hatch and was no different than any other 5.0 Mustang GT of the day. It is a common misconception that this 'Cobra' is different, when it is not.

[Sharppony]

There was a Cobra Mustang in 1979 and 1980. The 79 was available with a turbo 4 or a 302 V8. 1980, the 302 was dropped and a 255 V8 was offered. A large snake decal was on the hood and Cobra lettering was on the side and decklid. The Indy Pace Car was a separate model in 1979 but offered the same drivetrain options.

[mcflysvt04]

They also offered it in the Capri. It was called the RS. My friend had the Capri RS with the Turbo 4. It has a 4 speed manual. It didnt have to much low down but once it kicked in it would go. Only problem was he blew about 3 or 4 motors.It at the time was considered a pretty quick car going from 0-60 in ten seconds, my have things changed. It was primatve engine not even an intercooler. I had a 86 SVO Mustang. It atleast had the intercooler and was the first Mustang ever to have disc brakes. I had the boost turned up to over 20 lbs boy did the thing fly but it too blew a head gasket at 60k. SVO was the founder of SVT

[rtomlin]

.... and was the first Mustang ever to have disc brakes.


Ummm..... perhaps you are referring to 4-wheel disks?? :wtf:

My '67 has disk brakes :hehe:

[cobraken]

This sounds more like marketing than 'loyalty'. Dodge is having to 'buy' their customers loyalty to come back, rather than letting their product speak for itself, which is what should happen. As for giving current product owners first crack at a new one, Ferrari has been doing this for years, so the concept is nothing new. However, how many Ferrari 'owners' actually drive the car, as opposed to putting them away til the next model comes out and selling the original for the same price they paid for it?

The problem you run into with '1% over invoice' is that when that buyer wants to trade or sell the car, they expect top dollar or more. Is that fair when they didn't pay full price for it in the first place? Sure, you can say buyer beware for the used car, but how many of you will sell your car below market value rather than try to get as much as you can for it? Does that make you any different from a dealer wanting to get 'sticker' for the car? I think not.


I disagree. Ford often offers large rebates to "buy" customers. Dodge's view is that Viper owners are to be rewarded because statistically they are the most loyal Dodge buyers. Almost all Viper owners own 1 or more other Dodge or Chrysler products. That is loyalty & not being victimized by marketing. If the local Viper club is representative of the typical Viper owner, they are very sophisticated & successful business people w/ enough discretionary income to pretty much buy what they want. They have enough acumen to resist buying a product that isn't worth what they pay for it. I don't remember the mean income of Viper owners but it is much more than the typical Cobra owner.

If Dodge can offer 1st "crack" @ a product to "buy" loyalty why can't Ford do so. Judging by the the e-mail here most of us are tired of the Ford dealer attitude when we go into to see about purchasing a just introduced product knowing that the dealer will have a different tune if we could just wait a year.
We don't appreciate the gouging. Dodge corporate @ least understands the hard feelings generated by it.

I guess I just don't understand what your protest is about the discount Dodge offered to Viper owners (& thereby their friends w/ a transferrable certificate). Dodge said we appreciate your business. If you like any of our products please use this certificate. Let the used buyer beware? Of what? If they want to accept a trade or purchase a used car from someone who might have paid less for it than someone else, does that make the car worth less to the buyer? Value is value & we pay what we think the product is worth to us.

[keilhauer]

There is a difference between offering rebates on your standard, main-line products (which pretty well every manufacturer offers) versus offering the same on a low-production, limited edition niche model, like a Viper or Cobra. You are not trying to entice hundreds of thousands of buyers to the product.

A Viper or Cobra has enough cache about it to negate the need for a 'pricing incentive' IMO. Offering an incentive like that speaks negatively about a very special product, which is why you don't see that on premier vehicles. People will buy it because they want one, not because they are being offered an 'incentive'.

As for offering it to current owners, I don't have any issues with that. I mentioned it was something Ferrari already does and that it is not a new concept.

And you missed my point about trade-ins. Re-read that part. I've had many people in who 'paid invoice' or whatever you want to call it, then expect more for their trade than the market will bear because it is a 'special edition'. It is that customer that expects/demands both ends of the candle that ultimately will get burned.

[vger]

Fords, Fords, Fords Nothing but Fords for me!! I have only twice bought from the same dealer. What I have found is that the salesmen don't stay at the same dealer very long (more than 1 1/2 years). Now the dealer that I bought my last 2 Fords from the salesman has been there for 15 years. This is the same dealer that does all my repairs. It was hard to find a dealer that I could trust and kept their word. It is not a SVT dealer, and they do a great job on my Cobra. When it is something that they can't do (on the Cobra) I take it to where I bought it.
Current cars,
2002 Focus, 2002 E150 Van and my 2003 Cobra.
R.I.P.
1999 (traded in for Cobra), 1989, 1988, 1985 Mustang G.T.s
1997 E150 van, 1995 Aerostar, 1992 Escort, 1978 Cougar XR7
and my dad's 1978 Mustang II. :barfy:

[cobraken]

[QUOTE=keilhauer]There is a difference between offering rebates on your standard, main-line products (which pretty well every manufacturer offers) versus offering the same on a low-production, limited edition niche model, like a Viper or Cobra."

Dodge has never offered a rebate on the Viper. They have made an effort to discourage gouging.

I think I see your point about a customer who expects their car to be worth market value instead of less than market value because they paid less? A dealer who will not give a customer fair value for a trade in because the customer paid less for the car should be avoided like the plague.

[WVMystichrome]

I read in one of the Mustang publications that anyone who leased a 2004 SVT Cobra had first choice at the new 2007 Cobra. I even looked up that article when I bought my new 2004 mystichrome Cobra in December 2004 and that was what was written. I do not think I would trade my 2004 for a 2007 just for 50 more horsepower. I feel the new Cobra will be like the 2000 Cobra R only the very rich will be able to afford one like the Ford GT. We will have to wait and see. There are going to be some very big commisions and profit taking on the new one. I figure when they come out $50,000 to $60,000.00 would not be to far off the asking price.

[mcflysvt04]

I cant see the car going for that much. Its just not worth it to me atleast. What makes the Cobra such a great car is its price & bang for the buck. If a Cobra costs twice as much has a Mustang GT I dont want to be driving one any more. I have been going to the same dealer for servive since 86 when I bought my first Mustang a SVO. Fuuny thing is I have never bought a car from them. They just want too much for Mustangs & Cobras. I got a girlfriend of mine a Exploer at a steal but they dont budge on the Mustangs. They wouldnt give me more then $1000 off of sticker for a 04 and refused to take my super clean but high mileage 99 Cobra that they did 90% of the service on. They get over sticker on Cobra but not from me. RThe service has been great until last week when the 04 had to be flatbedded to them. Final today the ar3e going to take the tranny out & most likely order a new one but why did it take them a week to decide" this. Not a happy camper right now & I let them know it