Svtf Vs. Svtc ???

[CIVICKLR]

PLEASE someone enlighten me on this,.. let's go over some factoids,..


SVTC: 200 horse 169 trq. V6 5-spd 155cid 10.94f/9.88r
215/50-16 7.6
Weight: 3,110

SVTF: 170 horse 145 trq I4 6-spd 121cid 11.8f/11r brakes
215/45-17
Weight: 2,750


Horsepower to weight SVT Focus (3DR) wins,..
Let's hear some feedback on this SVT

[deactivated]

based on the dyno's I've run, I have also noticed that SVTFs lose less at the wheels (percentage wise) than SVTCs. that means little though because the torque on an SVTC will decimate a SVTF off the line.

[CIVICKLR]

Indeed, I hae never gone against a SVTC, but i would find it interesting,.. b/c we all know tourqe wins races,..



one.

[Green SVT]

This is definitely an interesting topic. There is lots of speculation on both sides.

IMO, there is more to this rivalry than power /weight. Gearing is important as it seems the FSVT has really tall gearing. It's a 6-speed yet it hits 60 in 2nd gear. That's not good. The CSVT hits 60 in 3rd.

Also, after looking at an FSVT dyno, it seems the power comes on pretty late in the powerband. Like over 5k rpms. The CSVTs secondaries open at 3400rpms WOT. That plus the higher torque also seems to put the FSVT at a disadvantage.

Of course this is all tech talk and I could just be spouting out of my ear. All I know is I've only had one encounter with an FSVT. In corners, it was no contest. Definitely better handling traits. On the straights, I'd pull. Everytime.

I have ridden in a Euro FSVT. My car does NOT feel torquey to me. So you can imagine that the FSVT felt absolutely gutless.

Then again, there is a silver CSVT around town who told me he gets destroyed by his friends Euro FSVT. Consistently.

I wonder if I can get one of these FSVT owners around here to give me a run.

-R-

[Green SVT]

Also, using your #s, the CSVT wins the pwr/wt battle also.

FSVT
2750lbs/170hp=16.18lbs/hp

CSVT
3110lbs/200hp=15.55lbs/hp

-R-

[CIVICKLR]

Yeah I'm slightly challenged,..my bad,.. I would love to run a SVTC,.. I know one in Rhode Island, but I never see him around anymore,..

As far as this discussion goes it is all "mag-racing" there is more than weight ratios and such,.. driving echniques, etc all count,.. anyways,.. lets keep up the discussion,..



one.

[Green SVT]

Something else. Don't some of the FSVTs have traction control that can't be completely defeated. Making a clean launch even harder?

I've heard that FSVTs are fairly quick once moving. Of course alot of CSVT owners say the same thing. My car doesn't feel quick from a roll so i have no opinion there.

Hey, maybe you should ask this ? in the Focus forum. You'll probably get quite a bit more answers too.

-R-

[deactivated]

SVTFs have a very narrow optimal powerband you have to stay in to be effective with it. Anything below 3 is pointless and anything above 5 or so becomes unusable. they are threat anywhere in between.

[CIVICKLR]

Yeah,.. the TC is tought to master unless you completely remove the fuse,.. which can be done very easily,.. getting a good launch in an SVTF is difficult due to the powerband as intellar stated,.. but when you get it it is like BUTTAH,...:tmb:



one

[Green SVT]

I just thought of something in the FSVTs favor. Power to the ground. At our last dyno, the 2 FSVTs put down 149 and 150fwhp.
My CSVT put down 165fwhp.

FSVT: 2750/150=18.33lbs per hp

CSVT:3110/165=18.85lbs per hp

Advantage: FSVT

Also, why is is pointless over 5k. I figured that's where you would be making the most power.

-R-

[deactivated]

cause tq peaks around 5k (well for YRF0 cars) so in any kind of short distance race, that extra hp isnt going to do much if you dont have the tq to put the rubber to the ground.

[Green SVT]

On paper maybe. But how about in real life. Have you done any short distance races?

-R-

[deactivated]

i'm pretty confident an SVTC will hold its own against the SVTF. There is no replacement for displacement.

[Buckshot77]

I've had the luck to race against a Focus on the strip. It wasn't really a contest. We were both running about posted times and the SVTC had him every time. I was running 15.4-15.8's and he was 15.9-16.1's. The launch off the line was better in the SVTC every time as well.

Rick

[mchedd]

Buckshot77 - Your signature states "Owner of extensively modded SVT Contour"

But your times indicate 15.4-15.8's (which aren't bad). What mods have you installed and was the Focus an SVT? If so, any idea if it had modifications as well?

[Green SVT]

I'm guessing that this is when Rick was stock. Since, he has done engine swap and forced induction.

-R-

[Buckshot77]

Ya, I was waiting for someone to look at my sig and ask that. At the time I was running a stock motor and a couple basic bolt ons such as y-pipe and exhaust. The Focus was modded similarly if I remember and yes it was an SVT, this was at an SVTOA event a couple summers ago.

Rick

[imajsdaddy]

Originally posted by Green SVT
This is definitely an interesting topic. There is lots of speculation on both sides.

IMO, there is more to this rivalry than power /weight. Gearing is important as it seems the FSVT has really tall gearing. It's a 6-speed yet it hits 60 in 2nd gear. That's not good. The CSVT hits 60 in 3rd.





Only thing I can add to this is that I think the speed/gear numbers are a hair off...

My SVTF will to 42MPH in 1st gear and 73 in 2nd gear... this is the red line as well my SVTF and I'm sure others like the higher RPM's... So when I kick 1st gear out to 7000RPM's when I hit 2nd I'm already in the high 3000's therefore making the run to the 5000 split mark much shorter! So I think that if kept in the higher RPM's the SVTF could possibly take a contour over all but not off the line!

This being said I took on a V6 grand am and we were nose to nose off the line (his an automatic) and I took over once I hit the end of the 2nd gear pull... Had to stop at that point due to reaching the speed limit! So... Donno... SVTF / CSVT would be a interesting CLOSE run!

[SALMOST]

I don't know if you think this will be worth any weight or not as some of it is based on the driver, but I happen to be fortunate to live in a household that has both an SVTF (mine) and an SVTC (dad's).

Now getting to drive both of them consistently although more in the Focus than the Contour I have to say that based on stock vs. stock the Contour will absolutely destroy me off the line (thank you TC :( ) and once it's pulled up ahead there is no catching it. However, on a rolling start with a 50/50 split of straights and turns then it really does come down to who is a better driver.

Just my 2 cents!

[mchedd]

I thought I'd revist this post to let y'all know the spring issue of Focus Fanatic magazine has an article discussing a merging of the SVTC and SVTF.

The SVT Team in Michigan shoe horned a 2.5 DOHC into an SVTF, added some body and interior bling creating a ride that's the best of both worlds.

Evidently the SVT Skunk Works Team was thinking about the possibility of producing this ride but abandoned the idea due to concerns about saftey. (The article states they may have figured the lighter 4 banger ZETEC made for better handling)

[RTStabler51]

They did that a few years aback. It never made it any further due to crash testing.

And bottom line, stock v stock its a drivers race.


Originally posted by mchedd
I thought I'd revist this post to let y'all know the spring issue of Focus Fanatic magazine has an article discussing a merging of the SVTC and SVTF.

The SVT Team in Michigan shoe horned a 2.5 DOHC into an SVTF, added some body and interior bling creating a ride that's the best of both worlds.

Evidently the SVT Skunk Works Team was thinking about the possibility of producing this ride but abandoned the idea due to concerns about saftey. (The article states they may have figured the lighter 4 banger ZETEC made for better handling)

[SVT ZX3]

I can't belive this. 2 awsome handling cars here and all anyone is talking about is strait line acceleration!!! Anybody had the chance to drive both around the same track?

[WD40]

Anybody had the change to drive both around the same track?
Well, not drive, but compete against.
There's an SVTC in our region that AutoCrosses with me.
I think we're dead even event wise.
3 wins for him over my SVTF, and 3 wins for me over his SVTC.
We're never more than 1sec apart on a 50-55sec course.
Most of the time we're within .5sec of each other.
Time to put some buck$ down on the line. :D

One thing is for certain; he leaves the starting line a lot quicker than I do.:thud:

[Team Ford Texas]

Well focus fans I remember reading an article about putting a 32 valve dohc V-8 in
the ZX3.

[FORDSVTPARTS]

According to Road and Tracks test of the SVTC it ran 15.4 qtrs and SVTf's run 15.8.

Yes proffesional drivers but also stone stock cars.

The SVTF however did the slalom at 65.2 mph and the skidpad at .85 g's. vs the SVTC at 61.9 in the slalom and .83 on the pad.

If you think revving an SVTF beyond 5000 is pointless then you have never driven one.

That is where they really start making their hp from 5000 to 7200.

The SVTF is really not a dragster it is meant as more of an autocross or road course car. As was the SVTC which doesn't benefit from the SVTF's much better chassis and suspension.

I would bet that on a road course like Blackhawk farms, gingerman or even Road America with two unmodified cars the SVTF would slaughter the SVTC.

When you start modifying the cars then you destroy the comparison because it would be nearly impossible to modify them equally.

If there were no limit to the mods then you could bring over a slightly used WRC Focus with 320 hp or so and AWD as a comparison so I think if you want to compare these cars you need to compare stock to stock.

[cdsilver02]

I have had the oppurtunity to r##e 2 SVTC's head to head.

Both times I pulled hard on them but top end they have me hook line and sinker.

That is all I know.

[burn813]

I had the chance to go head to head agianst a FSVT. First I should tell you that I have a few Mods. Chip, Aftermarket exhaust, and K&N Air filter. Both of us are very unexperienced racers when it comes to the 1/4 mi. 3 times I went up agianst him and all thee times I had about a 1 second advantage running about a 15.03 at 92.8 mph and his at 16.01 at 89.43 mph. As far as I know all he has done is a exhaust and a cold air intake. I know that the comaprisons aren't really that great but it gave me a good feel for the FSVT

[deactivated]

hmm...thats about right, because an exhaust isn't going to give him any benefit in the 1/4. So that might as well be a stock time. I know of people doing 16 stock really easy. Also sounds like you really know how to drive your car.

[burn813]

Well I love to try and get the most out of my driving experience as I can. :hehe: My reaction times weren't the greatest though, but none over 1 second..... just not that great. I am trying to find out how to get more horses out of my car.... I did the dyno calculator on the site and they say that it is about 260 at the flywheel and about 220 at the wheels. I would really like to get it on the dyno to see where I am really at. Also, I went to an Svt driving school at Texas World Speedway....the CSVT and FSVT really do well on the corners and help for the straights cause you have more speed coming out (obviously). I can't wait till the next one that I can go to.

[deactivated]

you are getting 220 at the wheels with just a chip exhaust and filter? man you must have a strong motor to begin with. We had a 2000 here that only did 167 with a chip and filter.

[burn813]

Remember that is only an estimate. I will have to get it on a Dyno to see what it really has. I hope it is close.

[deactivated]

ok, well I dont want to sound like a party pooper, but those numbers just sound kinda high for those mods.

[burn813]

You are not being a party pooper at all. I just hope that I will have close to 200 at the wheel, heck I would be happy with 190. I really need to find a decent dyno shop.... all the ones around here want over $100 for a dyno test. I was very happy with a 15.03 and like all that are addicted to speed I want to find more power :hehe: but back to the real subject CONTOURS rule.... :D

[deactivated]

$100 for adyno? That sucks. we get 3 pulls for $40 here.

[RyeLou]

You won't be anywhere near 200hp, let alone 190hp. With the mods in my sig. I'm at 180hp almost dead even. The headers are the only thing that make a noticable differance. In all honesty, you shouldn't expect more than 170hp at the wheels, and if you have that it would be a pretty decent motor to start with. A 15 flat is'nt unheard of with a stock SVTC, so that is compeltely believable. A guy local to me ran a 14.7 in his stock SVTC, but blew the trans when he went to give it a second try.

As for the SVTF destroying the SVTC in a race with turns, I don't think it would quite happen like that. I think in the end it would come down to more of a drivers race for the turns. In a straight line, I think its a drivers race as well with a slight advantage going to the SVTC.

As for using a WRC Focus, haha...that would be pretty sweet actually. But if you could do that, then a SVTC would be able to get the turbo kit treatment with a 3L motor. If done properly, you can get around 375hp at the wheels. Takes some time to tune that in properly, but it most certainly can be done! Not saying it will win, even after all that. But it would be a hall of a challange to watch!