Sonic04SVT
04-08-2004, 12:43 PM
I know of a couple SVT Focus owners with the JRSupercharger....does anyone know of anybody with a Vortech kit on there's. I've heard complaints of the JRS being too little bang for too much buck.
View Full Version : SVT FOCUS Vortech Blower!
Sonic04SVT
04-08-2004, 12:45 PM
The addition of the V-5 F-Trim supercharger will increase horsepower from 170 to 251 and torque from 145lb./ft. to 192lb./ft. at approximately 10 psig at the flywheel.*
Just an estimation from vortechs site.
Just an estimation from vortechs site.
Sonic04SVT
04-08-2004, 01:08 PM
From www.superchargersonline.com
Performance Stats Stock and w/ V4FJ218-028SQ
2002-2003 Ford Focus SVT 2.0L
HP (Peak) 170(stock) 276(w supercharger)
Torque (ft. lbs.) (Peak) 145(stock) 204(w/supercharger)
Performance Stats Stock and w/ V4FJ218-028SQ
2002-2003 Ford Focus SVT 2.0L
HP (Peak) 170(stock) 276(w supercharger)
Torque (ft. lbs.) (Peak) 145(stock) 204(w/supercharger)
imajsdaddy
04-08-2004, 02:14 PM
run a search on "supercharger" on this forum...
The Vortech has a bunch of negative comments.... Basically Vortech, made a half **s kit and called it good...
More than likely it will ***K up your engine...
run the search and read up... Then make your decision!
The Vortech has a bunch of negative comments.... Basically Vortech, made a half **s kit and called it good...
More than likely it will ***K up your engine...
run the search and read up... Then make your decision!
Greg@SVTOA
04-08-2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by imajsdaddy
run a search on "supercharger" on this forum...
The Vortech has a bunch of negative comments.... Basically Vortech, made a half **s kit and called it good...
More than likely it will ***K up your engine...
run the search and read up... Then make your decision!
Do you have first-hand experience with one?
run a search on "supercharger" on this forum...
The Vortech has a bunch of negative comments.... Basically Vortech, made a half **s kit and called it good...
More than likely it will ***K up your engine...
run the search and read up... Then make your decision!
Do you have first-hand experience with one?
deactivated
04-08-2004, 02:36 PM
saleen09 blew one up, but I believe he said it was due to the jiffy lube not filling the oil all the way back up.
besides him I dont know of anyone else that has one.
besides him I dont know of anyone else that has one.
Saleen09
04-08-2004, 04:37 PM
Here I am , ask away.
( jiffy lube has NEVER touched my CAR!)LOL
( jiffy lube has NEVER touched my CAR!)LOL
deactivated
04-08-2004, 05:03 PM
recap the story saleen09...i remember it was something about oil and a dyno.
TwinSvts
04-08-2004, 09:27 PM
All i have heard is the JR is the ideal kit due to the boost being enough for some more ponies but not enough to start warping pistons and cams and what not. For my money I am getting the JRSC. Just got a couple more months of saving then I'm there.
Beantown Focus
04-09-2004, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by imajsdaddy
run a search on "supercharger" on this forum...
The Vortech has a bunch of negative comments.... Basically Vortech, made a half **s kit and called it good...
More than likely it will ***K up your engine...
run the search and read up... Then make your decision!
:confused: votech kit is half assed? a couple people on other forums have them, yes they are more complicated than a jrsc but im not sure if i would as far as to call it half assed :huh:
run a search on "supercharger" on this forum...
The Vortech has a bunch of negative comments.... Basically Vortech, made a half **s kit and called it good...
More than likely it will ***K up your engine...
run the search and read up... Then make your decision!
:confused: votech kit is half assed? a couple people on other forums have them, yes they are more complicated than a jrsc but im not sure if i would as far as to call it half assed :huh:
imajsdaddy
04-09-2004, 06:50 AM
according to a couple of guys (see old thread on this topic for more info as I'm not goign to waste the time quoting it)
The Vortech kit works fine till 5800 RPM's after that the stock MAF is unable to work properly and the computer can no longer control the air fuel mixure correcly...
Also the injectors are at 100% capacity with the vortech kit... Which is not good... These are 2 of the problems with the Vortech kit that as far as I know are still unresolved!
Like I said, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE DECIDING....
GREG: Nope don't have 1st hand experience with the kit... Don't want to destroy my car.... Thanks for asking though....
The Vortech kit works fine till 5800 RPM's after that the stock MAF is unable to work properly and the computer can no longer control the air fuel mixure correcly...
Also the injectors are at 100% capacity with the vortech kit... Which is not good... These are 2 of the problems with the Vortech kit that as far as I know are still unresolved!
Like I said, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE DECIDING....
GREG: Nope don't have 1st hand experience with the kit... Don't want to destroy my car.... Thanks for asking though....
deactivated
04-09-2004, 07:04 AM
well the simple solution to that would be to replace the MAF and the injectors.....hell i'd want some 50 pounders on there anyways. for that matter I'd upgrade the fuel pump too. (a PITA a know but if you are going to go all out might as well do it)
Greg@SVTOA
04-09-2004, 07:08 AM
Perhaps we should call Steve at Vortech and ask him about this?
Hmm... where's that roladex...
Hmm... where's that roladex...
deactivated
04-09-2004, 07:26 AM
hey, if we can get more product experts as regulars on here I'd be ALL for it.
Greg@SVTOA
04-09-2004, 07:33 AM
Steve has always returned my calls, they don't get in for another half-hour or so, but I plan to get his take on the comments here.
Rudejake
04-09-2004, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by inteller
hey, if we can get more product experts as regulars on here I'd be ALL for it.
:tmb: Great idea! You might have to take their info with a grain of salt since they're selling the product. I'd much rather hear it "straight from the horse" vs. second hand stories.
hey, if we can get more product experts as regulars on here I'd be ALL for it.
:tmb: Great idea! You might have to take their info with a grain of salt since they're selling the product. I'd much rather hear it "straight from the horse" vs. second hand stories.
svt4real
04-09-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Greg@SVTOA
Steve has always returned my calls, they don't get in for another half-hour or so, but I plan to get his take on the comments here.
I would like to hear his words on this..
because I am going to go with some type of set up with in about 6 months so I am trying to get all the info I can
Steve has always returned my calls, they don't get in for another half-hour or so, but I plan to get his take on the comments here.
I would like to hear his words on this..
because I am going to go with some type of set up with in about 6 months so I am trying to get all the info I can
Greg@SVTOA
04-09-2004, 08:12 AM
I just got off the phone with Steve Padfield from Vortech, I expect he will reply very shortly. :D
Saleen09
04-09-2004, 08:21 AM
Alright here is my short version.
Drove out to Florida to get the Vortech kit put on my car back in october. Kit installed by CFM and tuned by SCT. 42#'ers, stock MAF, and custom tune flashed onto my PCM were utilized. A little over a month later, motor went boom BIATCH. At first I thought it was due to firestone leaving the oil low on the oil change the day before the dyno . After shipping the motor to Tom at Focus-Power, found out the tune was too lean and melted two pistons causing the oil consumption. Motor is now being built to the gills and retuned with 55's and aftermarket MAF.
For drievability and performance dialog of the kit, please follow this link to my previous writeup. Scroll about 5-8 posts down.
http://www.svtownersassociation.com/svtoaforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6393
The stock MAF does peg at 5800 RPM. ALso, the 42's are at 100% duty cycle with a stock SVT on stock boost. Vortech did back this for a short amount of time. THIS HAS ALL CHANGED LAST WEEK!! Vortech is now including 55# injectors, new tune with more power, AND A DIABLO PREDATOR WITH EVERY KIT!
This has taken all the ?'s out of this kit. The kit has great potential and I will demonstrating such when my car is retuned and add more boost!
Here is some pics and vids of the car:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288379945
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287778429
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287348195
Keep any more questions coming!!!!!!
I will be checking this throghout the day to answer any and all questions regarding the kit.
Drove out to Florida to get the Vortech kit put on my car back in october. Kit installed by CFM and tuned by SCT. 42#'ers, stock MAF, and custom tune flashed onto my PCM were utilized. A little over a month later, motor went boom BIATCH. At first I thought it was due to firestone leaving the oil low on the oil change the day before the dyno . After shipping the motor to Tom at Focus-Power, found out the tune was too lean and melted two pistons causing the oil consumption. Motor is now being built to the gills and retuned with 55's and aftermarket MAF.
For drievability and performance dialog of the kit, please follow this link to my previous writeup. Scroll about 5-8 posts down.
http://www.svtownersassociation.com/svtoaforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6393
The stock MAF does peg at 5800 RPM. ALso, the 42's are at 100% duty cycle with a stock SVT on stock boost. Vortech did back this for a short amount of time. THIS HAS ALL CHANGED LAST WEEK!! Vortech is now including 55# injectors, new tune with more power, AND A DIABLO PREDATOR WITH EVERY KIT!
This has taken all the ?'s out of this kit. The kit has great potential and I will demonstrating such when my car is retuned and add more boost!
Here is some pics and vids of the car:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288379945
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287778429
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287348195
Keep any more questions coming!!!!!!
I will be checking this throghout the day to answer any and all questions regarding the kit.
Forced
04-09-2004, 08:34 AM
I don't think we are in the business of selling half ass systems...
The setup we had previously used 42 lb injectors and was safe, reliable and smog legal! After doing some research and listening to our customers, we have now changed to 55 lb injectors and are including a Diablo Predator. No price increase. The MAF is not an issue to us and we feel we have a great product. I am sorry I am not on this board, but there are so many out there it is hard to choose which one to keep tabs on. Most of my "Focus" interaction is on the Focaljet. I will try to keep updated on this board now as well. Here is my post on the jet about this on the jet:
http://www.focaljet.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=999968&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Steve Padfield
Vortech Engineering
The setup we had previously used 42 lb injectors and was safe, reliable and smog legal! After doing some research and listening to our customers, we have now changed to 55 lb injectors and are including a Diablo Predator. No price increase. The MAF is not an issue to us and we feel we have a great product. I am sorry I am not on this board, but there are so many out there it is hard to choose which one to keep tabs on. Most of my "Focus" interaction is on the Focaljet. I will try to keep updated on this board now as well. Here is my post on the jet about this on the jet:
http://www.focaljet.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=999968&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Steve Padfield
Vortech Engineering
Anthochoritis
04-09-2004, 08:37 AM
I want to clarify something about the Jackson Racing Eaton Roots application supercharger which I have. Firstly, I noticed they have begun underrating it on the Ford Racing parts site and elsewhere in terms of numbers. I do not know whether it is in error or on purpose. I dynoed my car, which has JUST the supercharger at 198 HP 164 LBS/FT TQ at the front wheels on a MUSTANG DYNO! On the site, they write 170 to 200 HP and 145 to 154 TQ. These numbers are not correct, apples and oranges firstly (whp vs flywheel hp), and just wrong secondly. So I dont think going from 143 whp to 198 isn't worth the money and 164 tq. isn't bad at all. Put that together with the fact the the unit is self contained (no drilling the block for engine oil). By the way, I watched a Vortech install on Speed channel in a Focus, haha, it took them (3 accomplished mechanics) three days, it takes a LOT of work and the car is no where near OEM when done) as Vortech says. Sure you get more power, but its a no brainer that your car won't last as long (high boost)and will not function the same way(engine oil)and more maintenance(coolant). If you're gonna get a supercharger, get the Eaton roots. If you want more power than that get a turbo conversion done. If you're going to mess with the car to that degree, you might as well get a turbo (TOM perhaps).
deactivated
04-09-2004, 08:39 AM
is your predator chip disabling T/C or does it simply ride on top of the existing ECU? please forgive my limited knowledge of chips, all I've heard is that the SVTF can't be chipped.
Saleen09
04-09-2004, 08:41 AM
Steve,
Thanks for coming on here. I would like to add that Steve has taken care of me since DAY 1 on my Vortech purchase even through all the headaches and trials. His is one of the big reasons I have stayed with Vortech and will continue to recommend them wholeheartedly!
The diablo reflashes the ECM with the new tune. You can adjust timing, fuel and other parameters +/- 5%. Also, you can have new tune sent over the interenet if you outgrow the current one and need more playing room. I don't think anything is mentioned about the TC though.
Thanks for coming on here. I would like to add that Steve has taken care of me since DAY 1 on my Vortech purchase even through all the headaches and trials. His is one of the big reasons I have stayed with Vortech and will continue to recommend them wholeheartedly!
The diablo reflashes the ECM with the new tune. You can adjust timing, fuel and other parameters +/- 5%. Also, you can have new tune sent over the interenet if you outgrow the current one and need more playing room. I don't think anything is mentioned about the TC though.
Forced
04-09-2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by inteller
is your predator chip disabling T/C or does it simply ride on top of the existing ECU? please forgive my limited knowledge of chips, all I've heard is that the SVTF can't be chipped.
The Predator is not a chip. It is a hand held programmer that reflashes the computer.
is your predator chip disabling T/C or does it simply ride on top of the existing ECU? please forgive my limited knowledge of chips, all I've heard is that the SVTF can't be chipped.
The Predator is not a chip. It is a hand held programmer that reflashes the computer.
Greg@SVTOA
04-09-2004, 08:49 AM
Steven, I know what a busy guy you are and I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to come here and address the questions of this great group of Focus Fanatics. :tmb:
One thing you will find very handy about this forum, is that you can subscribe to a thread and then have all responses e-mailed to you, so you can see what has been said without having to come back to the forum to read the reply.
One thing you will find very handy about this forum, is that you can subscribe to a thread and then have all responses e-mailed to you, so you can see what has been said without having to come back to the forum to read the reply.
deactivated
04-09-2004, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by Forced
The Predator is not a chip. It is a hand held programmer that reflashes the computer.
ah ok, I hear Diablo and chips mixed together all the time so I was never sure what it was....not like a Superchip though. It writes over the existing one. Based on that I'll assume it has no way of disabling T/C either.
here and address the questions of this great group of Focus Fanatics.
not just Focus fanatics but SVT Focus fanatics....we're in a whole separate class of fanaticism.:D
on a related note, the Getrag can only handle up to 152 lbs of tq....when you put in this 160+ tq grinding monster, won't the tranny internals need to be upgraded to avoid voiding it's warranty?
The Predator is not a chip. It is a hand held programmer that reflashes the computer.
ah ok, I hear Diablo and chips mixed together all the time so I was never sure what it was....not like a Superchip though. It writes over the existing one. Based on that I'll assume it has no way of disabling T/C either.
here and address the questions of this great group of Focus Fanatics.
not just Focus fanatics but SVT Focus fanatics....we're in a whole separate class of fanaticism.:D
on a related note, the Getrag can only handle up to 152 lbs of tq....when you put in this 160+ tq grinding monster, won't the tranny internals need to be upgraded to avoid voiding it's warranty?
Forced
04-09-2004, 09:01 AM
Diablo and Superchips both have chips and hand held programmers. Some applications can have a chip and some need to be reflashed. Sorry for sounding dumb, but what T/C are you talking about?
deactivated
04-09-2004, 09:03 AM
traction control, if you slap a big boost baby on it like you are planning, and try to do an agressive launch, the T/C is going to bog out the motor and strip the hell out of the brakes trying to control wheel spin. and I can only assume people will want to be doing agressive launches with this puppy.
Saleen09
04-09-2004, 09:05 AM
t/c is traction control.
Forced
04-09-2004, 09:07 AM
Duh.
We don't touch that, but maybe the Predator can do that. You could give Diablo a call.
We don't touch that, but maybe the Predator can do that. You could give Diablo a call.
deactivated
04-09-2004, 09:11 AM
it might not be as much as a problem with a Vortech as say a JRSC, but if you could deliver that with your system you would have a SIGNIFIGANT advantage over your competitors.
hey Greg, if you are able to work any magic to pull in an SVT Focus platform engineer I would love to hear their logic behind the unintelligent T/C. I was unable to rustle any up at CLT.
hey Greg, if you are able to work any magic to pull in an SVT Focus platform engineer I would love to hear their logic behind the unintelligent T/C. I was unable to rustle any up at CLT.
svt4real
04-09-2004, 09:30 AM
not just Focus fanatics but SVT Focus fanatics....we're in a whole separate class of fanaticism.
on a related note, the Getrag can only handle up to 152 lbs of tq....when you put in this 160+ tq grinding monster, won't the tranny internals need to be upgraded to avoid voiding it's warranty?
where did this data come from? if I remember right turbo-tom was putting down way more then that with no problem's
on a related note, the Getrag can only handle up to 152 lbs of tq....when you put in this 160+ tq grinding monster, won't the tranny internals need to be upgraded to avoid voiding it's warranty?
where did this data come from? if I remember right turbo-tom was putting down way more then that with no problem's
deactivated
04-09-2004, 09:35 AM
you know I think I'm wrong. I saw those numbers posted on a board, mff.com I think, but Getrag says 210 tq. Now here in the good ole US of A torque is lbs/ft. Over in Germany it will be something metric, so maybe if you do the math 210 over there maybe is 152 ove here. Hell I dunno.
also, i never compare toms car to anything cause he has upgraded so much stuff in it there is no way it can be compared to a stock vehicle. He has like clutchmasters everything in it now.
also, i never compare toms car to anything cause he has upgraded so much stuff in it there is no way it can be compared to a stock vehicle. He has like clutchmasters everything in it now.
Rudejake
04-09-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by inteller
hey Greg, if you are able to work any magic to pull in an SVT Focus platform engineer I would love to hear their logic behind the unintelligent T/C. I was unable to rustle any up at CLT.
I'd really like to hear someone from Ford address and settle once and for all the "aftermarket modification vs. warranty" issue. Just a thought.
hey Greg, if you are able to work any magic to pull in an SVT Focus platform engineer I would love to hear their logic behind the unintelligent T/C. I was unable to rustle any up at CLT.
I'd really like to hear someone from Ford address and settle once and for all the "aftermarket modification vs. warranty" issue. Just a thought.
Forced
04-09-2004, 11:16 AM
Warranty info...
From our FAQ (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/support/faq.html) page:
The installation of Vortech products, except those defined as "for racing use only" do not void the new vehicle warranty nor should they cause the vehicle to fail emissions tests. Notify the vehicle manufacturer if either of these situations occur. If the vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, you may contact the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) at (202) 260-2080 or www.epa.gov. If federal warranty protection is denied, call the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at (202) 326-3128 or www.ftc.gov. Additional information is available at the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) website www.sema.org.
From our friends over at Magnacharger about the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act:
http://www.magnacharger.com/magnusonmoss.htm
From our FAQ (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/support/faq.html) page:
The installation of Vortech products, except those defined as "for racing use only" do not void the new vehicle warranty nor should they cause the vehicle to fail emissions tests. Notify the vehicle manufacturer if either of these situations occur. If the vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, you may contact the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) at (202) 260-2080 or www.epa.gov. If federal warranty protection is denied, call the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at (202) 326-3128 or www.ftc.gov. Additional information is available at the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) website www.sema.org.
From our friends over at Magnacharger about the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act:
http://www.magnacharger.com/magnusonmoss.htm
imajsdaddy
04-09-2004, 04:17 PM
Okay... I started to write this earlier today but with a military job, things happen and you can't always have down time when you thought you have it!
So to start over...
I appriciate Greg and "Forced" jumping in and providing some good information. It's also great that Vortech stepped up and corrected the problem that the kit had when 1st released.
Just wanted to say thanks for stepping in and providing the latest and greatest information on your product!
Greg thanks for pulling some strings to get them here to post!
YOU 2 SAVED the name of the vortech S/C.... As it was going down hill with a bad rep...
Thanks
So to start over...
I appriciate Greg and "Forced" jumping in and providing some good information. It's also great that Vortech stepped up and corrected the problem that the kit had when 1st released.
Just wanted to say thanks for stepping in and providing the latest and greatest information on your product!
Greg thanks for pulling some strings to get them here to post!
YOU 2 SAVED the name of the vortech S/C.... As it was going down hill with a bad rep...
Thanks
svt170
04-09-2004, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Forced
Warranty info...
From our FAQ (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/support/faq.html) page:
The installation of Vortech products, except those defined as "for racing use only" do not void the new vehicle warranty nor should they cause the vehicle to fail emissions tests. Notify the vehicle manufacturer if either of these situations occur. If the vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, you may contact the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) at (202) 260-2080 or www.epa.gov. If federal warranty protection is denied, call the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at (202) 326-3128 or www.ftc.gov. Additional information is available at the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) website www.sema.org.
From our friends over at Magnacharger about the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act:
http://www.magnacharger.com/magnusonmoss.htm
I asked my dealership just this past Monday what would happen if I installed a supercharger. The department Manager told me it would void the entire powertrain warranty, period. Engine, tranny, clutch, top to bottom. That's the ONLY thing keeping me from getting a supercharger. I would even consider a compromise, but not a total powertrain void.
All I see is the factory "emissions" warranty is still covered. I'm worried about pistons, cams, transmission, same thing as everyone else.
Great Thread!
Warranty info...
From our FAQ (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/support/faq.html) page:
The installation of Vortech products, except those defined as "for racing use only" do not void the new vehicle warranty nor should they cause the vehicle to fail emissions tests. Notify the vehicle manufacturer if either of these situations occur. If the vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, you may contact the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) at (202) 260-2080 or www.epa.gov. If federal warranty protection is denied, call the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at (202) 326-3128 or www.ftc.gov. Additional information is available at the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) website www.sema.org.
From our friends over at Magnacharger about the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act:
http://www.magnacharger.com/magnusonmoss.htm
I asked my dealership just this past Monday what would happen if I installed a supercharger. The department Manager told me it would void the entire powertrain warranty, period. Engine, tranny, clutch, top to bottom. That's the ONLY thing keeping me from getting a supercharger. I would even consider a compromise, but not a total powertrain void.
All I see is the factory "emissions" warranty is still covered. I'm worried about pistons, cams, transmission, same thing as everyone else.
Great Thread!
helga123
04-11-2004, 05:08 AM
To me, the Vortech system now moves into the "buy" category.
The one thing that cannot be overlooked is the inclusion of the aftercooler vs the JRSC. This is so "the right thing to do".
Just my opinion, but when I look at the level of engineering/packaging (the crosshaft/drive and the final layout/fit), what's actually included (aftercooler, injectors, now tuning in the box), I see value.
From the street prices I've seen, the Vortech looks to be 55% more than the JRSC, with perhaps Tom's kit being 60% more than the Vortech. I could feel real comfortable spending 20% of what the car cost to move it up in performance to beyond the SRT-4 level and leave it at that, which is how I look at the Vortech. (Whereas with the JRSC, it's spending money to make an also ran- why not just leave it alone? And with Tom's path, I could see you could get carried away pretty quickly- you would so drop $10K on a car with a $11K Blue Book because your "resistance would be low" and you would "need more now".)
So, with the "middle ground" I get to keep the car I love to drive, without getting sucked into a Dodge for the power alone or an STi (which is a $20K+ jump from an SVTF).
I like it. (And there's always Tom to tune it, no?)
Oh yeah, and stop whining about the install. Some of the BEST times you can have with a car are working on it, especially with nice new parts and looking forward to more horsepower when you're done. Put down the mouse and spend some time with the tools.
Warranty? How about putting it together properly and driving it properly and not looking in advance for someone else to back your dumb ass?
The one thing that cannot be overlooked is the inclusion of the aftercooler vs the JRSC. This is so "the right thing to do".
Just my opinion, but when I look at the level of engineering/packaging (the crosshaft/drive and the final layout/fit), what's actually included (aftercooler, injectors, now tuning in the box), I see value.
From the street prices I've seen, the Vortech looks to be 55% more than the JRSC, with perhaps Tom's kit being 60% more than the Vortech. I could feel real comfortable spending 20% of what the car cost to move it up in performance to beyond the SRT-4 level and leave it at that, which is how I look at the Vortech. (Whereas with the JRSC, it's spending money to make an also ran- why not just leave it alone? And with Tom's path, I could see you could get carried away pretty quickly- you would so drop $10K on a car with a $11K Blue Book because your "resistance would be low" and you would "need more now".)
So, with the "middle ground" I get to keep the car I love to drive, without getting sucked into a Dodge for the power alone or an STi (which is a $20K+ jump from an SVTF).
I like it. (And there's always Tom to tune it, no?)
Oh yeah, and stop whining about the install. Some of the BEST times you can have with a car are working on it, especially with nice new parts and looking forward to more horsepower when you're done. Put down the mouse and spend some time with the tools.
Warranty? How about putting it together properly and driving it properly and not looking in advance for someone else to back your dumb ass?
Rudejake
04-11-2004, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by helga123
Warranty? How about putting it together properly and driving it properly and not looking in advance for someone else to back your dumb ass?
I don't think someone having questions about how an aftermarket modification effects their car's warranty makes them a dumb ass. :eek:
I understand the point you're trying to make and agree. If you install anyones supercharger or turbo and then take it up to redline on every shift, you deserve the trouble you've made for yourself. BUT, this being an imperfect and sometimes unfair world, it is very possible than you could drive sanely and still end up with problems. "Honest Mr. Dealership, I just added it for the looks and never beat it!"... ya, they'll buy that one. When going that far above the designed hp for the engine, I think that you're cutting into the design safety factor of the internal parts and thus increasing the chance for failure. You can't make me believe that someone is going to the time and expense to add that much more power and NEVER use it.
I'd love to have a supercharge my SVTF, but I just don't feel like footing the bill myself if/when there's a major problem. If you can, cool, bring it over and take me for a ride. :D
Steve's info on his product is great and I appreciate the time he took to answer our questions. :tmb:
Warranty? How about putting it together properly and driving it properly and not looking in advance for someone else to back your dumb ass?
I don't think someone having questions about how an aftermarket modification effects their car's warranty makes them a dumb ass. :eek:
I understand the point you're trying to make and agree. If you install anyones supercharger or turbo and then take it up to redline on every shift, you deserve the trouble you've made for yourself. BUT, this being an imperfect and sometimes unfair world, it is very possible than you could drive sanely and still end up with problems. "Honest Mr. Dealership, I just added it for the looks and never beat it!"... ya, they'll buy that one. When going that far above the designed hp for the engine, I think that you're cutting into the design safety factor of the internal parts and thus increasing the chance for failure. You can't make me believe that someone is going to the time and expense to add that much more power and NEVER use it.
I'd love to have a supercharge my SVTF, but I just don't feel like footing the bill myself if/when there's a major problem. If you can, cool, bring it over and take me for a ride. :D
Steve's info on his product is great and I appreciate the time he took to answer our questions. :tmb:
2_fast_SVT
04-11-2004, 02:36 PM
i thought the diablo chip was for the zx3 and all it did was take the governer off so it can go faster than 110 or 120 something like that? and the svt focus dont shut down.
svt170
04-11-2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by helga123
Oh yeah, and stop whining about the install. Some of the BEST times you can have with a car are working on it, especially with nice new parts and looking forward to more horsepower when you're done. Put down the mouse and spend some time with the tools.
Warranty? How about putting it together properly and driving it properly and not looking in advance for someone else to back your dumb ass?
Who was whining about the install?
And this entire thread says the vehicle warranty is not void. My dealer says something else. I'm just trying to find the truth.
-Helga- Bite Me.
Oh yeah, and stop whining about the install. Some of the BEST times you can have with a car are working on it, especially with nice new parts and looking forward to more horsepower when you're done. Put down the mouse and spend some time with the tools.
Warranty? How about putting it together properly and driving it properly and not looking in advance for someone else to back your dumb ass?
Who was whining about the install?
And this entire thread says the vehicle warranty is not void. My dealer says something else. I'm just trying to find the truth.
-Helga- Bite Me.
Greg@SVTOA
04-11-2004, 03:01 PM
Ok, knock it off and get back on topic, the rudeness and disrespectful comments are not welcome here.
Greg@SVTOA
04-11-2004, 03:12 PM
"Warranty? How about putting it together properly and driving it properly and not looking in advance for someone else to back your dumb ass? "
That's what I was talking about- should have made that clear.
That's what I was talking about- should have made that clear.
Greg@SVTOA
04-11-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Rudejake
I don't think someone having questions about how an aftermarket modification effects their car's warranty makes them a dumb ass. :eek:
Exactly.
I don't think someone having questions about how an aftermarket modification effects their car's warranty makes them a dumb ass. :eek:
Exactly.
helga123
04-11-2004, 05:09 PM
My point is that you will never get a "ruling" (in your favor) or absolution in advance.
You KNOW that a serious mod like a Vortech will put your warranty at risk. No amount of case law will help you if your dealer takes one look at what's dripping on the flatbed and says "get real".
Which makes Vortech's improvements all the more valuable. They improved the system @ no charge. They fought the lean and the customer won, no?
So I appreciate that they took care of MY dumb ass.
You KNOW that a serious mod like a Vortech will put your warranty at risk. No amount of case law will help you if your dealer takes one look at what's dripping on the flatbed and says "get real".
Which makes Vortech's improvements all the more valuable. They improved the system @ no charge. They fought the lean and the customer won, no?
So I appreciate that they took care of MY dumb ass.
Anthochoritis
04-11-2004, 07:10 PM
Just an FYI for the people that were discussing it earlier. It is correct that the Getrag is rated at 154 lbs/ft tq. or somewhere near there, i don't remember the exact number. I did the conversion from 210 newton meters, but i don't remember the formula. This did figure into my purchasing of the Eaton system which is about there for torque at the wheels, because I'm a believer of tuning a car to a degree above its present setup, unless you want to change transmissions and differentials to handle the power. Of course Tom's kit and the Vortech work fine (unless you start revving it to like 5 or 6k and start dropping the clutch), but only a fool would not admit that the probability of problems increases the higher you go above the torque rating. It's a reasonable conclusion I think.
Sonic04SVT
04-13-2004, 06:54 AM
If im not mistaken the Vortech kit comes with 55lb injectors
canadasvt
04-13-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Anthochoritis
Just an FYI for the people that were discussing it earlier. It is correct that the Getrag is rated at 154 lbs/ft tq. or somewhere near there, i don't remember the exact number. I did the conversion from 210 newton meters, but i don't remember the formula. This did figure into my purchasing of the Eaton system which is about there for torque at the wheels, because I'm a believer of tuning a car to a degree above its present setup, unless you want to change transmissions and differentials to handle the power. Of course Tom's kit and the Vortech work fine (unless you start revving it to like 5 or 6k and start dropping the clutch), but only a fool would not admit that the probability of problems increases the higher you go above the torque rating. It's a reasonable conclusion I think.
1 N.M. = 0.7376 pound feet or 1 pound feet = 1.3558 N.M.
Ya are correct.;)
Just an FYI for the people that were discussing it earlier. It is correct that the Getrag is rated at 154 lbs/ft tq. or somewhere near there, i don't remember the exact number. I did the conversion from 210 newton meters, but i don't remember the formula. This did figure into my purchasing of the Eaton system which is about there for torque at the wheels, because I'm a believer of tuning a car to a degree above its present setup, unless you want to change transmissions and differentials to handle the power. Of course Tom's kit and the Vortech work fine (unless you start revving it to like 5 or 6k and start dropping the clutch), but only a fool would not admit that the probability of problems increases the higher you go above the torque rating. It's a reasonable conclusion I think.
1 N.M. = 0.7376 pound feet or 1 pound feet = 1.3558 N.M.
Ya are correct.;)
deactivated
04-13-2004, 09:41 AM
well, in that case you have to stop and think, if the vortech is stating that you are hitting 160+ torque at some point in the power band, and chances are you are going to hit that lower than 7k rpms.....then at SOME point, even if you aren't revving and dumping the clutch, that torque is exceeding the tranny specs and at that point all warranties become void.
I'm sorry but I just can't see any other way around it. It is the perfect excuse a dealer could use if your tranny goes and I don't see any acceptable defense.
I'm sorry but I just can't see any other way around it. It is the perfect excuse a dealer could use if your tranny goes and I don't see any acceptable defense.
Beantown Focus
04-13-2004, 10:30 AM
if i am going to spend the money add a supercharger, im gonna get a clutchmasters aftermarket clutch and a quaife lsd that will handle and control the power......any other way is uncivilized lol
svt4real
04-14-2004, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by inteller
well, in that case you have to stop and think, if the vortech is stating that you are hitting 160+ torque at some point in the power band, and chances are you are going to hit that lower than 7k rpms.....then at SOME point, even if you aren't revving and dumping the clutch, that torque is exceeding the tranny specs and at that point all warranties become void.
I'm sorry but I just can't see any other way around it. It is the perfect excuse a dealer could use if your tranny goes and I don't see any acceptable defense.
find a dealer that would cover your tranny with either s/c or a turbo bolted to your engine. I know if I bolt a s/c to my engine everything power train wise is void..
well, in that case you have to stop and think, if the vortech is stating that you are hitting 160+ torque at some point in the power band, and chances are you are going to hit that lower than 7k rpms.....then at SOME point, even if you aren't revving and dumping the clutch, that torque is exceeding the tranny specs and at that point all warranties become void.
I'm sorry but I just can't see any other way around it. It is the perfect excuse a dealer could use if your tranny goes and I don't see any acceptable defense.
find a dealer that would cover your tranny with either s/c or a turbo bolted to your engine. I know if I bolt a s/c to my engine everything power train wise is void..
svt170
04-14-2004, 07:28 PM
That's what I'm getting at. So how can Vortech say the warranty is NOT void?
Sorry, but I still don't get it.:huh:
Sorry, but I still don't get it.:huh:
Saleen09
04-15-2004, 10:11 AM
technically the warranty is not "completley void". Point in case, i got my seat covers warrantied along with my window track assembly while the Vortech was on. Now when my motor went, that was another story entirely.
Does tha help out some?
Does tha help out some?
svt170
04-15-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Saleen09
technically the warranty is not "completley void". Point in case, i got my seat covers warrantied along with my window track assembly while the Vortech was on. Now when my motor went, that was another story entirely.
Does tha help out some?
Kinda. What you're saying is that Vortech says their supercharger will not void factory warranty, but in all reality it does. At least, for me, it just seems misleading. I fully understand the powertrain will be void with a supercharger, and I expected that, but when I read that the Vortech DIDN'T void warranty, I had questions. That's good enough for me. Thanks.
technically the warranty is not "completley void". Point in case, i got my seat covers warrantied along with my window track assembly while the Vortech was on. Now when my motor went, that was another story entirely.
Does tha help out some?
Kinda. What you're saying is that Vortech says their supercharger will not void factory warranty, but in all reality it does. At least, for me, it just seems misleading. I fully understand the powertrain will be void with a supercharger, and I expected that, but when I read that the Vortech DIDN'T void warranty, I had questions. That's good enough for me. Thanks.
helga123
04-17-2004, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by svt170
Kinda. What you're saying is that Vortech says their supercharger will not void factory warranty, but in all reality it does. At least, for me, it just seems misleading.
And I, for one, would have been far more impressed if the factory said:
Lean issue:
"When we got systems out there on customer's cars, they ran leaner than anything we saw in testing. There was at least one engine failure, so we immediately upgraded injectors/control. We also developed an optional MAF package for even greater safety factor. Those who expect sustained high rpm use might want to consider it".
Warranty Issue:
"No aftermarket manufacturer can guarantee that the automaker will honor a warranty on a vehicle that has been modified with their product. Take this into consideration before you perform any modification."
It bottom lines that whatever (chance of) coverage you have, drops with the mod. Whatever safety factor (engine) drops with the mod. Whatever safety factor's in the Getrag, drops with the addition of a clutch that slips less & drops with better traction, and drops if you beat on it.
This is just the way it is. Know this in advance.
The hope is, that if you accept all this and still want to play, the upgraded system is a reasonable thing to do, properly installed and properly driven. That's really about all you should expect.
What I would like to know (and it's really none of my business) is the cost of saleen09's effort. Original package + what he winds up spending to resurrect it to the point where he feels it's good to go.
Because in the "what if" category, if you drop $4K to Vortech it, disaster strikes, and it's another $4K to pick up the pieces, it's certainly something to consider before you jump, no?
Kinda. What you're saying is that Vortech says their supercharger will not void factory warranty, but in all reality it does. At least, for me, it just seems misleading.
And I, for one, would have been far more impressed if the factory said:
Lean issue:
"When we got systems out there on customer's cars, they ran leaner than anything we saw in testing. There was at least one engine failure, so we immediately upgraded injectors/control. We also developed an optional MAF package for even greater safety factor. Those who expect sustained high rpm use might want to consider it".
Warranty Issue:
"No aftermarket manufacturer can guarantee that the automaker will honor a warranty on a vehicle that has been modified with their product. Take this into consideration before you perform any modification."
It bottom lines that whatever (chance of) coverage you have, drops with the mod. Whatever safety factor (engine) drops with the mod. Whatever safety factor's in the Getrag, drops with the addition of a clutch that slips less & drops with better traction, and drops if you beat on it.
This is just the way it is. Know this in advance.
The hope is, that if you accept all this and still want to play, the upgraded system is a reasonable thing to do, properly installed and properly driven. That's really about all you should expect.
What I would like to know (and it's really none of my business) is the cost of saleen09's effort. Original package + what he winds up spending to resurrect it to the point where he feels it's good to go.
Because in the "what if" category, if you drop $4K to Vortech it, disaster strikes, and it's another $4K to pick up the pieces, it's certainly something to consider before you jump, no?
Slickshoes
04-17-2004, 05:20 PM
Figured I'd jump in here and offer another $.02.
I too have the Vortech SC on my '02 SVTF and have had in now for about 4 months. I'm a pretty avid road racer and by no means easy on my car. I'm religious with the maintenance, but at least once a month I'm on a road course spending close to two solid hours at WOT and probably put 2-3k street miles on it per month. So if it was going to fail, I'd think it would certainly happen to me. The short version of the story, is even with the now outdated 42 lb injectors and pegged MAF, my car never blew up even after some serious beatings. So, I agree with Steve's viewpoint that the old kit was for the most part "safe and reliable", just not nearly as upgradable as the one that is being shipped now.
I also happen to be a pretty serious data collecting freak. When people say things like "that won't work" or "that's bad for it", I'm usually the first one to say "prove it". So, I also am using an AutoTap OBD-II logger to log all pretty much everything with the engine (fuel pressures, timing, intake temps, cylinder head temps, fuel bank trims, everything under the sun just about) and an LM-1 wideband O2 sensor permanently installed. I then also send oil samples from every other oil change off to Blackstone Laboratories to get analyzed for engine wear charateristics. Like I said, big geek with a capital "G".
Anyways, I can't add an awful lot to what's already been said here about the Vortech kit, other than its the only kit out there that is CARB approved that has such a huge potential. Once you get tired of 250-260whp, it doesn't take much to step it up (and as important, step it back down for smog). But be warned, the stock SVTF clutch is NOT up to the task of handling this kind of power. You can run the stock clutch for a while, but you will definitely want to be saving up for something better.
But here is a little info from my set up:
Here's a photo album which just shows the engine bay from different angles and stuff like that. (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/040115/)
Video of sound at idle and a couple revs (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/vortech_svtf.wmv)
Speedo and tach view while accelerating (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/slick_vortech_speedo_tach.wmv)
Yes, the Vortech passed the "my girlfriend hates brute acceleration" test.:haha:
Here's a short video of me (with the **nasty** stock clutch) chasing an EVO8 out at Buttonwillow (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/button_willow/040305/vids/evo_chase4_2k.wmv)
Here's a couple samples of what the air/fuel ratio looked like with the 42 lb's. Definitely nice and rich. Can't wait to get my hands on the 55's!
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/040129/vortech_svtf_drive_annotate.JPG
Here's at idle. Can't ask for a better controlled 14.7 @ idle than that. Not really Vortech's work, but still, compare that to a standalone speed-density based tuning solution (ala Pectel, Haltech, AEM, etc). Everyday driveability is more than excellent.
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/040129/vortech_svtf_idle.JPG
And here's from an 1/8 mile drag run
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/drag_racing/040213/slick_vortech_8th_mile_drag.JPG
And I'm *extremely* pleased with the performance of the aftercooler! I seriously thought that heat soak might become a problem for me on my track days, but it had absolutely no problem dealing with the constant boost at all. Ambient air temp was in the mid to high 50's.
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/willow_springs/040220/data/iat_speed.gif
Of course there are issues I don't like with it too. The battery relocation make for a real PITA if you need to get at it. And its much more difficult to get at the clutch fluid bleed valve now since the blower mounting plate is directly over it. Otherwise, there's not much to complain about, even for a whiney biatch like myself.
Now with that all said, my car is currently in the shop. I made a bone head mistake, and missed a shift on track and something let go. The engine appears to be perfectly fine, and the blower has been sent over to Vortech for inspection, so its probably nothing major. But still, its a good excuse to build up.:tmb: Marcy Motorsport's installing a Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch, Quaife, Fidanza flywheel, ceramic coating the headers, new guages, etc. Can't wait to get it back!!!
Sorry for writing a novel here... figured I'd just throw it all out there at once.
I too have the Vortech SC on my '02 SVTF and have had in now for about 4 months. I'm a pretty avid road racer and by no means easy on my car. I'm religious with the maintenance, but at least once a month I'm on a road course spending close to two solid hours at WOT and probably put 2-3k street miles on it per month. So if it was going to fail, I'd think it would certainly happen to me. The short version of the story, is even with the now outdated 42 lb injectors and pegged MAF, my car never blew up even after some serious beatings. So, I agree with Steve's viewpoint that the old kit was for the most part "safe and reliable", just not nearly as upgradable as the one that is being shipped now.
I also happen to be a pretty serious data collecting freak. When people say things like "that won't work" or "that's bad for it", I'm usually the first one to say "prove it". So, I also am using an AutoTap OBD-II logger to log all pretty much everything with the engine (fuel pressures, timing, intake temps, cylinder head temps, fuel bank trims, everything under the sun just about) and an LM-1 wideband O2 sensor permanently installed. I then also send oil samples from every other oil change off to Blackstone Laboratories to get analyzed for engine wear charateristics. Like I said, big geek with a capital "G".
Anyways, I can't add an awful lot to what's already been said here about the Vortech kit, other than its the only kit out there that is CARB approved that has such a huge potential. Once you get tired of 250-260whp, it doesn't take much to step it up (and as important, step it back down for smog). But be warned, the stock SVTF clutch is NOT up to the task of handling this kind of power. You can run the stock clutch for a while, but you will definitely want to be saving up for something better.
But here is a little info from my set up:
Here's a photo album which just shows the engine bay from different angles and stuff like that. (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/040115/)
Video of sound at idle and a couple revs (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/vortech_svtf.wmv)
Speedo and tach view while accelerating (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/slick_vortech_speedo_tach.wmv)
Yes, the Vortech passed the "my girlfriend hates brute acceleration" test.:haha:
Here's a short video of me (with the **nasty** stock clutch) chasing an EVO8 out at Buttonwillow (http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/button_willow/040305/vids/evo_chase4_2k.wmv)
Here's a couple samples of what the air/fuel ratio looked like with the 42 lb's. Definitely nice and rich. Can't wait to get my hands on the 55's!
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/040129/vortech_svtf_drive_annotate.JPG
Here's at idle. Can't ask for a better controlled 14.7 @ idle than that. Not really Vortech's work, but still, compare that to a standalone speed-density based tuning solution (ala Pectel, Haltech, AEM, etc). Everyday driveability is more than excellent.
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/tech/vortech/040129/vortech_svtf_idle.JPG
And here's from an 1/8 mile drag run
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/drag_racing/040213/slick_vortech_8th_mile_drag.JPG
And I'm *extremely* pleased with the performance of the aftercooler! I seriously thought that heat soak might become a problem for me on my track days, but it had absolutely no problem dealing with the constant boost at all. Ambient air temp was in the mid to high 50's.
http://jabba.s4r.com/cg/willow_springs/040220/data/iat_speed.gif
Of course there are issues I don't like with it too. The battery relocation make for a real PITA if you need to get at it. And its much more difficult to get at the clutch fluid bleed valve now since the blower mounting plate is directly over it. Otherwise, there's not much to complain about, even for a whiney biatch like myself.
Now with that all said, my car is currently in the shop. I made a bone head mistake, and missed a shift on track and something let go. The engine appears to be perfectly fine, and the blower has been sent over to Vortech for inspection, so its probably nothing major. But still, its a good excuse to build up.:tmb: Marcy Motorsport's installing a Clutchmasters Stage 4 clutch, Quaife, Fidanza flywheel, ceramic coating the headers, new guages, etc. Can't wait to get it back!!!
Sorry for writing a novel here... figured I'd just throw it all out there at once.
charlesp37
04-17-2004, 07:41 PM
I can't get them to work.
helga123
04-17-2004, 09:14 PM
Slickshoes:
That was the most awesome post I've ever seen.
Thanks and write a novel anytime!
That was the most awesome post I've ever seen.
Thanks and write a novel anytime!
Slickshoes
04-17-2004, 11:25 PM
Haha... Thanks. Believe me, I tend to run on quite a bit and probably end up loosing most people along the way.:)
Originally posted by charlesp37
I can't get them to work.
They're just your basic Windows Media 9 files.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/download/default.asp
Originally posted by charlesp37
I can't get them to work.
They're just your basic Windows Media 9 files.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/download/default.asp
Zeemee1
04-20-2004, 10:34 AM
Outstanding post slickshoes. I'm impressed with the A/F at wide open throttle. How is the idle and low engine rpm torque for just cruising?
Slickshoes
04-20-2004, 11:31 AM
Thanks! Idle is perfect. In fact, I no longer have cold start up issues where the car was pretty much undriveable until it warmed up.
As for the low end torque, I wasn't expecting any real increase, since that's not the way centrifugal blowers work. In fact, I was ready for some low end loss due to the parasitic nature of a supercharger. But I'm EXTREMELY happy with the low end gains. I figured out that I gained about an extra 30 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm, which is my normal freeway cruising range.
As for the low end torque, I wasn't expecting any real increase, since that's not the way centrifugal blowers work. In fact, I was ready for some low end loss due to the parasitic nature of a supercharger. But I'm EXTREMELY happy with the low end gains. I figured out that I gained about an extra 30 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm, which is my normal freeway cruising range.
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