HAGREEN
10-29-2003, 05:32 AM
i know this has been discussed before, but my shop foreman says to use ford oil as it is a synthetic blend. anybody using synthetic that they really like and what are true benefits.:huh:
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ChicagoMike
10-29-2003, 08:38 AM
You should use full synthetic after break-in, although Ford won't admit to this. Using regular oil in a car like this is a big no-no. The Viper, M3, Corvette, Lancer Evolution and others come with full synthetic from the factory. I have had Ford's synthetic blend put in at 750 miles (comes with it from the factory), then changing it again at 3000 just before i store it for winter.
Your synthetic options are:
Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Mobil 1. They are all availabe in 5W20 except Mobil 1 which is 0W20 approved for 5W20 spec.
Some people run a 5 or 10W30 against Ford's recommendations, but that's a whole other topic. the W30 is supposed to hold up better in racing conditions.
Mike
Your synthetic options are:
Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Mobil 1. They are all availabe in 5W20 except Mobil 1 which is 0W20 approved for 5W20 spec.
Some people run a 5 or 10W30 against Ford's recommendations, but that's a whole other topic. the W30 is supposed to hold up better in racing conditions.
Mike
Waltman
10-29-2003, 10:20 AM
Hagreen, I was told the same thing by my service guy, the ford stuff is already blended. The car ran so smooth after my first oil change I could not believe it!!
I had come to the conclusion that all this syn deal is just another way to get your hard earned dollar. I had used the expensive stuff in previous cars, and saw no difference whatsoever, except less $$ in pocket. My Cobra runs excellent with the regular stuff.
I had come to the conclusion that all this syn deal is just another way to get your hard earned dollar. I had used the expensive stuff in previous cars, and saw no difference whatsoever, except less $$ in pocket. My Cobra runs excellent with the regular stuff.
ChicagoMike
10-29-2003, 10:25 AM
The idea behind synthetic is not going to effect the way your car runs "smooth". The idea behind synthetic is that it can stand up to much more harsh conditions and lube better than conventional oils, therefore protecting your engine better increasing the life of the engine. The high end synthetics like Royal Purple and Redline also claim more Horsepower gained due to their extra lubricating properties.
Think of it as added insurance and peace of mind.
Mike
Think of it as added insurance and peace of mind.
Mike
5.0 guy
10-29-2003, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the tip, I never thought of having Ford put their 5w20, instead of spending $70.00 last time, they are only charging me $32.00 on Saturday!
bones
10-29-2003, 11:19 AM
I've posted this reply before in some other threads.
On my first oil change, my dealer used valvoline 5W30 syn blend and we all know the book says to use Motorcraft 5W20. I called SVT about it. According to SVT 5W30 the syn blend is OK to use. Ford went to 5W20 in 2003 only to meet the CAFE fuel ecomony standard. SVT tech also said to wait for 2-3 oil changes or 5000-6000 miles before switching to full synthetic 5W30. I'm going with this info until I hear something better.
bones
03 in the body shop right now. rear ended by some 18 YO chick on a cell phone. hoping there isn't any hidden damage that shows up at 120 MPH.
On my first oil change, my dealer used valvoline 5W30 syn blend and we all know the book says to use Motorcraft 5W20. I called SVT about it. According to SVT 5W30 the syn blend is OK to use. Ford went to 5W20 in 2003 only to meet the CAFE fuel ecomony standard. SVT tech also said to wait for 2-3 oil changes or 5000-6000 miles before switching to full synthetic 5W30. I'm going with this info until I hear something better.
bones
03 in the body shop right now. rear ended by some 18 YO chick on a cell phone. hoping there isn't any hidden damage that shows up at 120 MPH.
Snake'n Kitty
10-29-2003, 12:01 PM
Hi All,
Although I've posted this info. in a previous thread, I thought I'd repeat it as you asked for "real world" experience. All my oil changes have been done by the dealer, cause I'm lazy and I bought the maintenance contract from Ford when I got my car.
Based on the advice of the dealer's SVT rep., I waited for 3 oil changes before I switched over to synthetic (10K miles). They charge me an additional $55.00 for using synthetic (Mobil 1) instead of the regular stuff. I know I can get better syn. (Amsoil, Redline) for less $, but like I said, I'm lazy.
Here's the REAL results:
1. MPG went from 17-18 hwy. to 20-21 under the same conditions (100 mi. roundtrip daily commute). I've always charted my gas mileage, so I know this is REAL!
2. Prior to using full synthetic, I could mat the go pedal in 1st @ 2000-2500 RPM and not break the rear tires loose up to redline. After the switch to full synthetic, I mat the gas and by 3000 rpm, the tires spin easily and the tach winds to 6000 almost instantly. This is not a road temperature effect, as I've repeated this "test" many times on 50-90 deg. days, going both uphill and downhill, so this effect is REAL. What does it mean? More horsepower, of course.
These benefits are on top of all the other benefits (reduced wear, etc...) that synthetic oil provides. In my book, there is no reason NOT to use synthetic oil! Of course, your results may vary, but I'm definitely hooked! In fact, I'm probably going to re-dyno my car, just to see how much more HP the car makes with the switch to synthetic.
My 2 cents...
Although I've posted this info. in a previous thread, I thought I'd repeat it as you asked for "real world" experience. All my oil changes have been done by the dealer, cause I'm lazy and I bought the maintenance contract from Ford when I got my car.
Based on the advice of the dealer's SVT rep., I waited for 3 oil changes before I switched over to synthetic (10K miles). They charge me an additional $55.00 for using synthetic (Mobil 1) instead of the regular stuff. I know I can get better syn. (Amsoil, Redline) for less $, but like I said, I'm lazy.
Here's the REAL results:
1. MPG went from 17-18 hwy. to 20-21 under the same conditions (100 mi. roundtrip daily commute). I've always charted my gas mileage, so I know this is REAL!
2. Prior to using full synthetic, I could mat the go pedal in 1st @ 2000-2500 RPM and not break the rear tires loose up to redline. After the switch to full synthetic, I mat the gas and by 3000 rpm, the tires spin easily and the tach winds to 6000 almost instantly. This is not a road temperature effect, as I've repeated this "test" many times on 50-90 deg. days, going both uphill and downhill, so this effect is REAL. What does it mean? More horsepower, of course.
These benefits are on top of all the other benefits (reduced wear, etc...) that synthetic oil provides. In my book, there is no reason NOT to use synthetic oil! Of course, your results may vary, but I'm definitely hooked! In fact, I'm probably going to re-dyno my car, just to see how much more HP the car makes with the switch to synthetic.
My 2 cents...
J Branton
10-29-2003, 02:34 PM
Bud, I'm using Mobil 1, 5w30. I feel like you can't beat the oil that is specified for Porsche, Vette, B.M.W. etc. You may be aware that synthetic oil meeting GM spec 4618M was necessary for the C5 Corvette because regular oil would cease to flow at high engine speeds and temperature. GM did not wish to use an oil cooler. I always look for the 4618M spec on any synthetic oil. Even some synthetics don't have it. I also think that the 5w30 may be better for hot Texas weather, John
PhillyCobra
10-29-2003, 02:51 PM
Snake'n Kitty,
I would guess that the performance and mileage improvements you have observed are from engine break in, rather than the synthetic oil. While I agree you may get a few HP from syn oil, there is no way that it could produce the changes you are seeing.
Many have observed and dyno proved significant power increases on these cars with break in.
Despite all this, I still agree that syn oil is great, but don't expect to feel the difference.
I would guess that the performance and mileage improvements you have observed are from engine break in, rather than the synthetic oil. While I agree you may get a few HP from syn oil, there is no way that it could produce the changes you are seeing.
Many have observed and dyno proved significant power increases on these cars with break in.
Despite all this, I still agree that syn oil is great, but don't expect to feel the difference.
sobra
10-29-2003, 07:30 PM
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/ford5w20.htm
This should answer anyone's questions.:bna
This should answer anyone's questions.:bna
XFIRECHIEF
10-30-2003, 06:38 AM
Check out AMSOIL.COM also.
As for HP gains? Not sure
Less engine wear? Much less
No varnish or sludge, etc.? None
Have used it since 1978 and never a problem.
Cost? What does a new engine cost?
As for HP gains? Not sure
Less engine wear? Much less
No varnish or sludge, etc.? None
Have used it since 1978 and never a problem.
Cost? What does a new engine cost?
Snake'n Kitty
10-30-2003, 09:21 AM
Philly Cobra,
I tend to agree with you that there may be something else in the mix regarding the SOTP improvement in performance, however I think most of the cylinder wall break-in advantage (this is where you get the most performance improvement, better ring seal) should have happened by 5K, don't you think? Also, I think most people who have done Dyno tests on regular vs. Syn. oil report a 2-5 HP improvement.
My best guess is the slight HP improvement from the synthetic switch plus maybe SLIGHTLY cooler conditions now and being on the edge of breaking the tires loose before the oil switch add up to the results I'm seeing. By the way, I'll keep testing, cause it's hella fun! I'll post new dyno results as soon as I get a chance.
I tend to agree with you that there may be something else in the mix regarding the SOTP improvement in performance, however I think most of the cylinder wall break-in advantage (this is where you get the most performance improvement, better ring seal) should have happened by 5K, don't you think? Also, I think most people who have done Dyno tests on regular vs. Syn. oil report a 2-5 HP improvement.
My best guess is the slight HP improvement from the synthetic switch plus maybe SLIGHTLY cooler conditions now and being on the edge of breaking the tires loose before the oil switch add up to the results I'm seeing. By the way, I'll keep testing, cause it's hella fun! I'll post new dyno results as soon as I get a chance.
Snake'n Kitty
10-30-2003, 09:24 AM
Oh, by the way,
The MPG improvement is definitely due to the syn. oil switch. Mileage jumped on the first tank of gas after the switch to syn.
The MPG improvement is definitely due to the syn. oil switch. Mileage jumped on the first tank of gas after the switch to syn.
PhillyCobra
10-30-2003, 06:30 PM
Seems to me that 2 to 5 HP gain from syn oil makes sense. I remember when Chevy switched to Mobil 1 in 1992, and reported about that improvement. Part of the improvement is less friction, part is less power needed to pump the oil.
Can't believe that drop in friction could possibly improve mileage by 2 mpg. If that were the case, all manufacturers would save a fortune by merely changing oil fill rather than engineering work to meet CAFE numbers. I think the actual real MPG improvement is on the order of a few tenths.
Don't know when optimum breakin is on these engines-- hear many different ideas. I know for a fact, though, that many engines reach maximum efficiency after many tens of thousands of miles (Porsche always made a point of this in the old days).
Another area where syn oil could offer improvements is in function of valve lash adjusters, which rely on oil pressure to maintain contact between cam and cam follower, maximizing valve lift. Could be that syn oil might sometimes work better in this regard at high RPM's. Just a thought.
Can't believe that drop in friction could possibly improve mileage by 2 mpg. If that were the case, all manufacturers would save a fortune by merely changing oil fill rather than engineering work to meet CAFE numbers. I think the actual real MPG improvement is on the order of a few tenths.
Don't know when optimum breakin is on these engines-- hear many different ideas. I know for a fact, though, that many engines reach maximum efficiency after many tens of thousands of miles (Porsche always made a point of this in the old days).
Another area where syn oil could offer improvements is in function of valve lash adjusters, which rely on oil pressure to maintain contact between cam and cam follower, maximizing valve lift. Could be that syn oil might sometimes work better in this regard at high RPM's. Just a thought.
Beersquirrel
10-30-2003, 08:13 PM
While we're talking oil, does anyone here believe in any of the oil treatments.
I've used Slick 50 in my previous vehicles (about every 50k miles.) I can't be sure they have helped, but my daily driver (the very uncool Escort Wagon) still gets great mileage (~35-38mpg), fair compression, and no major engine problems in 178,000 miles.
Any advice or opinions? Make me rich... 2 cents at a time
I've used Slick 50 in my previous vehicles (about every 50k miles.) I can't be sure they have helped, but my daily driver (the very uncool Escort Wagon) still gets great mileage (~35-38mpg), fair compression, and no major engine problems in 178,000 miles.
Any advice or opinions? Make me rich... 2 cents at a time
PhillyCobra
10-30-2003, 08:19 PM
Everything I've read about Slick 50 and other teflon type additives is negative. Good oil works by adhering to metal surfaces to allow a layer of oil to cushion between them. Teflon type treatments probably impair this ability. Many manufacturers specifically recommend against them.
Additives, like STP, that are viscosity modifiers also make no sense. You should use the right viscosity oil for your engine in the first place.
Additives, like STP, that are viscosity modifiers also make no sense. You should use the right viscosity oil for your engine in the first place.
ChicagoMike
10-31-2003, 06:59 AM
I would never use additives in a good engine. I use oil additives in my Saturn because it has a bad oil burning problem. The use of additives (I use the Engine Restore silver can) helps reduce my oil consumption and seems to bring back a few ponies (probably getting better compression, sealing the leaks).
Just use a top quality synthetic in your Cobra. If you don't want to spend the money on Redline, Amsoil or Royal Purple, get the Mobil 1 0W20 they sell specifically for Ford 5W20 spec.
Mike
Just use a top quality synthetic in your Cobra. If you don't want to spend the money on Redline, Amsoil or Royal Purple, get the Mobil 1 0W20 they sell specifically for Ford 5W20 spec.
Mike
XFIRECHIEF
10-31-2003, 07:20 AM
With the great synthetics out there today I don't think additives like that are needed or recommended. Do they still make that slick stuff? I thought they were gone from the market.
Snake'n Kitty
10-31-2003, 09:50 AM
PhillyCobra,
Remember, Vettes, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc... all ship their cars with syn. already in the motor. Surely CAFE reg's are part of the reason. Regardless, I think the 2-3 mpg improvement @ highway speeds (65-85 mph) does translate into more than the 2-5 hp improvement one would hope for by switching to synthetic. Even at highway speeds, I would guess the amount of power "freed-up" by reduced parasitic and frictional losses would be in the range of 2-5 hp, and that is only at part throttle. At full throttle, the HP gains would be even greater. But you've got a point; why isn't everyone else reporting big improvements, like I am? I can see your argument regarding the valve lash adjuster improvement, but it seems to me that would show-up mostly at max power and RPM, while I'm seeing the MPG improvement at 'low power' levels, and the SOTP meter is saying something's better @ 2500-3000 RPM and up. I guess a dyno test will be the only way to quantify what's happening here.
By the way, I'm a mechanical engineer by profession, so I tend to be cautious when I make the sort of statements I have regarding the switch to synthetic oil. I'll keep y'all posted on the dyno results.
Remember, Vettes, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc... all ship their cars with syn. already in the motor. Surely CAFE reg's are part of the reason. Regardless, I think the 2-3 mpg improvement @ highway speeds (65-85 mph) does translate into more than the 2-5 hp improvement one would hope for by switching to synthetic. Even at highway speeds, I would guess the amount of power "freed-up" by reduced parasitic and frictional losses would be in the range of 2-5 hp, and that is only at part throttle. At full throttle, the HP gains would be even greater. But you've got a point; why isn't everyone else reporting big improvements, like I am? I can see your argument regarding the valve lash adjuster improvement, but it seems to me that would show-up mostly at max power and RPM, while I'm seeing the MPG improvement at 'low power' levels, and the SOTP meter is saying something's better @ 2500-3000 RPM and up. I guess a dyno test will be the only way to quantify what's happening here.
By the way, I'm a mechanical engineer by profession, so I tend to be cautious when I make the sort of statements I have regarding the switch to synthetic oil. I'll keep y'all posted on the dyno results.
Snake'n Kitty
10-31-2003, 09:56 AM
A comment regarding Teflon-based additives and synthetic oils-
One of the beauties of synthetic oils is the long-chain polymers is they carry extra electrical charges on branches in the change (dangling bonds). This causes the molecule to become electrically "attracted" to surfaces it comes in contact with, sort of like static electricity. This is what helps prevent engine wear during start-up, when the oil hasn't reached full pressure yet. Using Teflon-based additives defeats this action to a large extent, although, in theory, the teflon particles will "smear" onto bearing surfaces and may offset this effect. Still, I won't be using oil additives anytime soon.
My 2 cents...
One of the beauties of synthetic oils is the long-chain polymers is they carry extra electrical charges on branches in the change (dangling bonds). This causes the molecule to become electrically "attracted" to surfaces it comes in contact with, sort of like static electricity. This is what helps prevent engine wear during start-up, when the oil hasn't reached full pressure yet. Using Teflon-based additives defeats this action to a large extent, although, in theory, the teflon particles will "smear" onto bearing surfaces and may offset this effect. Still, I won't be using oil additives anytime soon.
My 2 cents...
bones
10-31-2003, 02:43 PM
Check the owner's manual. I think it specifically says that additives are not recommended and may void your warranty. I would check mine now but its in the body shop. Hopefully out today.
1CEBITN
11-04-2003, 09:24 AM
snake n kitty, you really won't be able to attribute a 2-5 rwhp gain to the oil. Dynos have that much error in them or more from run to run on the same day, let alone on different days at different times of the year. I have never believed any claims of rwhp gains from synthetic oil but that doesn't mean it isn't there. I just don't think that small of a gain can be reliably measured by a dyno. By the way, these engines seem to get stronger up past 10k miles. I have seen posts and dyno sheets for a 10k mile stock Cobra that put out 399 SAE to the wheels.
In my opinion, if you change your oil every 3k miles, the synthetic is really not any better than the synthetic blend Ford recommends. The synthetics have an advantage in breakdown which occurs with mileage but if you change the oil frequently it won't have a chance to breakdown. Unless you plan on driving 10k miles between oil changes, the Amsoil and redline stuff just doesn't justify the price for the miniscule extra protection it may offer (imho).
I am going to switch to Mobil1 just because I can't always change the oil right at 3k mile intervals and there is a place here that will change the oil and filter for under $30 with Mobil1 making it just as cheap as a non-synthetic or blend oil. I have seen the mpg gains on past Cobras with Mobil1 so I believe that and the car does seem to run "smoother" right after the oil change but that goes away after a few drive cycles. In terms of power gains, I doubt it is anything other than negligible.
Use what gives you the best piece of mine, it is your car...
In my opinion, if you change your oil every 3k miles, the synthetic is really not any better than the synthetic blend Ford recommends. The synthetics have an advantage in breakdown which occurs with mileage but if you change the oil frequently it won't have a chance to breakdown. Unless you plan on driving 10k miles between oil changes, the Amsoil and redline stuff just doesn't justify the price for the miniscule extra protection it may offer (imho).
I am going to switch to Mobil1 just because I can't always change the oil right at 3k mile intervals and there is a place here that will change the oil and filter for under $30 with Mobil1 making it just as cheap as a non-synthetic or blend oil. I have seen the mpg gains on past Cobras with Mobil1 so I believe that and the car does seem to run "smoother" right after the oil change but that goes away after a few drive cycles. In terms of power gains, I doubt it is anything other than negligible.
Use what gives you the best piece of mine, it is your car...
Snake'n Kitty
11-04-2003, 09:56 AM
Icebitn,
I hear what you're saying. I don't expect to pick-up a 2-5 Hp improvement via the dyno. SAE specs for dyno's indicate that a lot of calibration effort is necessary to achieve a +/- 2% accuracy level on any particular dyno. A lot more work than 99% of the dyno shops are willing to go through. The effect I'm seeing via the SOTP meter is probably a combination of additional break-in and the oil switch, and feels to be around 15-20 HP (via precision calibrated SOTP meter LOL). That's what I'm going to check-out.
My last dyno was done @ 7500 miles, and I'll be using the same dyno to do the next test @ 14,000 miles w/ full synthetic. The reason I'm doing all this is because I picked-up a full 2-3 mpg immediately after the switch to synthetic! It seems to me that kind of mileage improvement translates into improved engine efficiency, which translates into more HP. Although I'll never be able to separate the portion attributed to engine break-in from the oil switch, I definitely expect to see an HP increase.
By the way, a 2-3 mpg improvement more than pays for the switch to full synthetic with 3000 mile oil changes!
I hear what you're saying. I don't expect to pick-up a 2-5 Hp improvement via the dyno. SAE specs for dyno's indicate that a lot of calibration effort is necessary to achieve a +/- 2% accuracy level on any particular dyno. A lot more work than 99% of the dyno shops are willing to go through. The effect I'm seeing via the SOTP meter is probably a combination of additional break-in and the oil switch, and feels to be around 15-20 HP (via precision calibrated SOTP meter LOL). That's what I'm going to check-out.
My last dyno was done @ 7500 miles, and I'll be using the same dyno to do the next test @ 14,000 miles w/ full synthetic. The reason I'm doing all this is because I picked-up a full 2-3 mpg immediately after the switch to synthetic! It seems to me that kind of mileage improvement translates into improved engine efficiency, which translates into more HP. Although I'll never be able to separate the portion attributed to engine break-in from the oil switch, I definitely expect to see an HP increase.
By the way, a 2-3 mpg improvement more than pays for the switch to full synthetic with 3000 mile oil changes!
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