Stereo question

[jimmylightning]

I going to have a new system put in my truck next Saturday (11/16/02). The current plan is to cut out the the box behind the seats,incuding removing the CD changer and having custom made boxes for 2 subwoofers. The design will be such that I can still raise the arm rest up if needed. All of the speaker are going to be Polk Audio with a Clarion head unit and of course an amp. My question is, I'd really like to keep the stock radio and the CD changer, does the radio unit have pre-amp power for the amp? Has anybody done a change and kept the stock radio and CD changer. Would the new radio make that much difference in the sound?

Thanks

Jim

[Jstas]

First off, don't cut anything. The plastic fantastic back there unbolts with 3 bolts.

Secondly, why do you want to keep the stock radio? If you turn it up loud, it starts to cut out bass frequencies to "save your speakers". The only thing that makes it a "premium sound system" is the fact that it has a CD Changer.

They have no provisions for an aftermarket amplifier. However, many amps available nowadays have a set of high level inputs which will accept the speaker lead wired from the radio as the input source. The problem with that is, the radio's bass blocking deal and the high level inputs are noisy.

If there is anything I dislike about the new Fords is, the stereos. the CD Changers only hold 6 discs and the head units fall woefully short of the standard of any other company out there. I still have my stock radio for the purpose of being able to return it to stock but it was the first thing ditched when I got the truck.

[jimmylightning]

John,

Thanks for the info. I'll let the guy doing my boxes for the subwoofers know about the bolts for removing the plastic storage box from behind the seats. Did you keep the CD changer for your system or did you ditch it?

Thanks

Jim

[Jstas]

I took it out but its sitting right here next to me.

I replaced it with a Kenwood eXcelon head unit and a Kenwood 10 disc CD Changer.

I still have to shove the custom enclosure I built into the truck and wire everything up. Also putting Polk 6.5 inc components and seperates into the stock locations with custom fab'ed aluminum brackets. Currently I am running Pioneer 6x8's all around off teh Kenwood head unit.

[jimmylightning]

John,

Did you pull the whole plastic mess out from behind your seats? What kind of subs are you putting in. I'm going with 2 polk 10" behind each seat. Or are you just putting in one enclosure behind the drivers seat and using the space that the stock CD player used for your new CD player. That was originally why I wanted to keep the stock CD, because I thought that dual subs behind both seats might just be a bit much.

Thanks

Jim:tmb:

[Jstas]

The "whole plastic mess" is one piece. I dislike it entirely. It caused nothing but problems and rattled and shook like an Ethiopian in Siberia. Yes, I did get rid of it. It's sitting in the bed of my Ranger. I think I'm going to shred it and throw it out. Thats about all its worth.

I have a custom enclosure built. The hold up for me is number one, I'm lazy and don't get up before 11 on Saturdays and number two, the box isn't carpeted yet. Well, the box is, the rest of it isn't. While the plastic fantastic was a pile of junk, it did have a usefulness to it. So what I did was I built an enclosure that would house the CD Changer and part of the amp behind the passenger seat and, in the middle, to ensure that the arm rest would move freely, I put a bin for loose stuff like gloves or a flashlight. Behind the driver's seat is a space where a seperate 10 inch enclosure will be mounted. I made the speaker enclosure and the rest of the deal seperate because of weight. Wrestling with a 55 inch long enclosure is not easy to do. The less weight the better.

What I did do with the CD Changer was I used the stock mounting studs from the stock CD Changer. Since my aftermarket changer is old and longer, it would not fit on the stock studs. So I took a piece of 3/4 inch plywood, recessed some holes so the bolts from the studs would still screw down to the stock location and I made an adapter plate. I screwed the new changer down to the adapter plate and called it a day. However, many of the newer aftermarket changers will bolt directly to the stock studs.

In the new enclosure, the stock studs for the CD Changer are not used but there are clearance holes to keep them from interfering with the box sitting level. I am going to recess the holes for the stock stud mounting positions from the plastic fantastic for mounting the sub box deal.

I am using a Kenwood eXcelon head unit, an old Kenwood 10 disc changer and a new Kenwood eXcelon 5 channel 1,000 watt amp. The doors and rear panels are getting Polk dB components up front with 6.5 inch woofers and the 2 inch tweeters and there will be Polk dB 6.5 inch seperates in the back. I have a 10 inch Polk dB sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I made the enclosure a tad small by accident (measured once and cut twice like an idiot) so I filled it with polyfill and it should be OK.

If you want a couple of sites to get high end stuff dirt cheap, check out these two:

Car Media (http://www.carmedia1.com)
Car Stereo Time (http://www.carstereotime.com)

Check those sites out. They offer a 35-50% discount over typical retail rates. Normally, I'm all for supporting the local little guy but when the local little guy treats me like an idiot, patronizes me, tries to sell me something I don't want and then over charges me, I'll gladly go to someplace online that will drastically undercut the local guy while giving me everything I am looking for. Not that I dislike the local guy, I just want to get my money's worth out of it. If the local guy is trying to shaft me to make a buck then screw the local guy. A satisfied customer is a billion times more money in the bank than an unhappy customer who just got screwed.

[jimmylightning]

John,

I really appreciate all the information you have given me on this. It is really going to help when I install my new system

Thanks again

Jim:D

[Jstas]

No problem!

I'm a stereo junkie and I have been for years. I know very much about the whole car stereo deal. I used to deal with local guys and slowly I started finding out that alot of the so called professionals have no clue what they are talking about. Consequently, I have been building my own stuff and assembling my own stereos and doing my own custom installs since I was 17. I hate seeing people get snowed by the "professionals" and sold something that isn't worth what they paid for it or seeing them regurgitate information that is just flat out wrong that a "professional" gave to them as gospel. I try to dispel as many myths and give as much help as I can. If I lived closer I'd even offer to help you with the install.

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, not all "professionals" are bad. I have met quite a few who are very good at what they do and make a very nice living out of it. They are few and far between though. Especially with the influx of the "ricer mentality" and the "ricer's" blind allegiance to whatever the popular brand of the week is. Very few of the local stores have anything more than a punk kid behind the counter trying to "front" for you.

I do know a few hard core stereo junkies who make a living at it and they have never steared me wrong or tried to rip me off. If anyone finds one like that, make sure you never lose touch because they are an excellent resource for not only stereo gear but even replacement interior parts or custom fabbed parts.

[MadRabbit]

Either of you stereo junkies have any advice on adding an MP3 player?

The stock speakers are still adequate for my worn-out eardrums but I would like to add something or replace something in the head to add MP3 playback.

I've heard of units you add on like a cd changer and I also heard of one that looks like the stock head but adds MP3.

Any advice?

[jimmylightning]

Hey,

I've heard of the standalone units. The problem I see is that the stock head unit in your Lightning probably can't handle it. My advice would be to by a new head unit that has MP3 capablities. Most on the market do have that capability now and don't cost all that much. John is much more of an expert on this than I am, but if I were you I'd go to those links he gave above. I looked at them and they have some real good prices. I'm partial to Alpine head units, but thats just me.

Jim :)

[Jstas]

You ask a complicated question.

First off, I will address the CD Changer deal. If you want to keep the factory head unit, your options are limited. You can get replacement or add-on factory parts but, they are pricey for stock level functionality. However, they do work directly with your stock stereo. What that means is unless your stock stereo has MP3 decoding capabilities, you won't be able to play MP3's. You can however, get a universal CD Changer. What this does is it comes with an RF Modulator. It basically plays the CD's by itself with all its own processing power. It then actually broadcasts the signal a short distance so that your antenna will pick up the signal. It broadcasts on a relativly unused frequency near the bottom of the FM range. You still get the CD quality sound but you have a seperate controller independant of the head unit. You have to devote a preset station to your CD Changer though but most radios come with no less than 32 presets so its not a problem. Newer units have you run the car's antenna lead into the modulator box and then to the head unit. This has eliminated the "broadcasting" of your tunes. The benefit is, you won't broadcast you CD's to the person sitting next to you at a stop light. The bad part is, this method can be electronically noisy, especially if the antenna has a ground loop or bad ground.

Now, some universal units play MP3's bot not all. From my experience, the best units by-far come from Pioneer, Kenwood and Clarion. Here is a Kenwood example, be sure to note the price.

Kenwoo Universal CD Changer w/ MP3 capability (http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-jMFRicHmsZU/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=610&I=113CMP59FM&o=m&a=0)

A good site to read info on is the Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfield.com) site. They offer good info on many things, indepth educational material and even tech support to just answer the questions of a potential customer. Thier prices are retail and competativly retail. The sites mentioned earlier in this thread will beat Crutchfield by a long shot. The good thing about Crutchfield is they have top notch customer service and they are excellent for beginners. I shop through thier catalog all the time and buy stuff too. I am much more advanced in skill than most people so I am completely confident buying from another site just to get the better price with no tech support.

Now, there are factory replacement head units that look factory but aren't. I have not seen any for the F-150 that will play MP3's though. I believe that it is the case that if your car did not have MP3 capability stock then your factory replacement will not come with it stock. I do not know much more about that and I really consider it a dead end unless you are going for the factory look but new electronics for a restoration project.

The best solution is an aftermarket head unit w/ MP3 playback with CD Changer controls. They all offer them now. Alpine, Clarion, Kenwood, Aiwa, Pioneer, Panasonic, Sanyo, Sony, JVC, and quite a few others all have this capability and all of them offer models that have built in CD Changer controls. To me, this is your best bet. If you get something from Crutchfield, they are a cinch to install.

Just so you don't think I am selling something here, I use what I preach. I have a Kenwood PS955 eXcelon head unit/reciever in the dash with an old Kenwood CD-310 (I think) 10 disc CD Changer. I bought both from Crutchfield. I have Polk speakers like mentioned above. I paid full price for my Polk sub and I got the components and seperates on a clearance sale at half off. All speakers came from Crutcfield. I also have a brand new Kenwood eXcelon KAC-X650D 5 channel amplifier that I got from CarStereoTime for about 250 dollars less than the retail fo $649. I get all my box building supplies and wiring supplies from Crutchfield or locally. I've used them before and my experience has been 100% great! I wouldn't recommend it if I wasn't happy with it.

Now a suggestion. Your stock speakers may sound good but thier frequency range is limited because they are cheap, ****-ass paper cones with a "wizzer" cone. Its just a paper extention of the dust cover meant to eminate high pitch frequencies and it does it, poorly. You may want to invest in a set of 6x8 inch speakers front and rear. You can replace all your speakers for less than 200 bucks from Crutchfield. They will send directions and harnesses to make things easier. If you get your head unit from Crutchfield, they will send directions and the appropriate harnesses to plug your new stereo directly into your stock harness. This utilizes all factory wiring requiring very little work on your part. They also come with directions on how to remove body panels too. For about 500 bucks though, you can have a really nice aftermarket stereo that looks good, sounds spectacular and does everything you want it to and install it all on a Saturday afternoon's worth of time.

I know what you are thinking. It's going to be too loud. Wrong. Power does not mean too loud. You need power so that the speaker has enough available power to reproduce sound accuratly. Not enough and you have flat, muddled, undefined sound that is hard to hear and differentiate. Too much for your rated capacity and you break things. But a simple head unit with 140-200 watts of power provides enough oomph for your average joe and won't over-tax your charging system.

I know that was long but I want to give the best and most complete info I can. If you have questions, please, ask them. I will do my best to answer them.

[MadRabbit]

Thanks for the excellent info and references, you guys are great :tmb:

I will read up on the gear from Crutchfield's

To clarify the MP3 factory replacement head, I had heard that the company that makes the stock decks for Ford also sells them under their own name (forget what it is) and they look like the stock unit but have more features like MP3. I guess the perceived advantage would be, keep the same look in your dash, and presumably wiring would be a joke. But your info made it clear that would be the lazy way out, for a second-rate deck. Wiring cant be that hard.

Thanks agin for the info.

[jimmylightning]

Life is now good in the Land of Lightning Music. I finished installing my new stereo system today and you wouldn't believe the difference from the stock unit. I went with an Alpine head unit, amplifier, dual 10" Polk subwoofer in a custom box behind the seats and 4 Polk speakers to replace the stock ones.:cool:

[ugothit]

I did something similar with my Lightning, click the link to check out the pics of the custom boxes we put in behind the back seat.

You got any pics of your mods? love to see 'em!

http://www.fordtruckworld.com/mygallery.asp?id=1111&album=2135