Street Racing

[BUG]

Here is a topic well worth the words. Very needed education for those that think it only happens in big cities and very cruddy movies. Todays Import crowd has grown the street racing to all new levels. I myself did not see an increase in illegal street racing after that cruddy movie. What I want to ask is has anyone been able to turn there ports not used airstrip into a drag strip? I have tried and tried with no success. I even choked and gave them some numbers on the 450+ weekend racers that have events late into the night. I even went as far as providing insurance, a 1,000,000 dollar bond approval and all I got was sorry there isn't a need. If the port would have opened it then the three to four calls a night in each county for racers may go down. Less tax dollars spent I say.

What have you tried? How have you tried to shrink the racing out on the street? Have you really never street raced over the speed limit anywhere with anyone?

Chris

[SVTfcs]

That's a great idea about converting an old air strip into a dragstrip. Where I'm from everyone always goes to an old industrial park with a long strip of pavement. Although, drag racing here is probably not "legal", it is very safe. Much safer than racing on a public road anyway (which I personally avoid). People have been going there for as long as I can remember. Oh, and I agree with your statement about The Fast and the Ferious. It was a pretty good movie but too ridiculous for me. In fact I think I'll write a post about it.

[Greg@SVTOA]

Truth be told, for the sake of educating myself, I've "attended" the late-night follies in the dirty industrial center down in the city. And what I saw was FAR from safe. There were dozens of teenagers parked ala Fast and Furious, many of them speeding around and driving like idiots, and what was most shocking to me, is that some of these morons would turn around and head back down the same road they were racing on, directly in the path of the next pair. No sense of danger, just a bunch of kids with no clue in an extremely dangerous situation.

I posted some stills I had extracted from a video I had made of a street racing accident over on The Corral, a video that shows a deceased 17 year old girl with her head hanging off her body. The reponses from the younger "I'm never gonna die" crowd were so disheartening that it made me realize that you are not going to be able to talk this generation, no matter what you say.

So I'll just stick to the standard "No posts about street racing" format. That does not apply here, this is not a post about "I wasted some Z-28 out on main street"

For the sake of good reading, wanna see some distrubing pictures? I took these myself, I was on my way to work at Great Lakes Dragaway when I happened upon this accident...
WHat had happened was, two kids racing, one bumped the rear 1/4 panel of the other, sent the car into a spin, into the oncoming traffic in the opposite lane. The dead girl's car was hit broadside at 55 MPH. She was killed instantly.

I have some gory bloody pix I could post, stuff that would make you barf on the keyboard, but these shots will probably get the message accross. Please remember, these photos were extracted from a video I took of this scene.

This is the car the dead girl was in. She was still crushed inside it when I arrived upon the scene, before the police and paramedics got there.

http://www.usawebcraft.com/images/crash1.jpg

This is the young man who caused the death of this girl..
http://www.usawebcraft.com/images/crash4.jpg

The paramedics have just removed the dead girl's body from the wreck. I will never forget the sight of her head hanging upside-down off of her body. They went thru a routine of trying to "revive" her. She was dead when I got to her.

It's not gonna change anything that I have posted this... Just figured I would anyways. You kids are going to do what you do anyway...



http://www.usawebcraft.com/images/crash5.jpg

[BUG]

Kids are going to do it anyway. I promised myself once I got nitrous never to use it on the roadway no matter the temptation. I feel everyone should live this rule..,,and no street racing. I watched a guy lose his 2001 Corvette. No thanks for my cobra. I have been trying to promote the use of the track for some of the club members in the local scene. I would really like to get an airstrip open. Then the police couldn't get involved. Heck charge like 3.00$ a run a let it rip.

Chris

[Jstas]

Personally, I can't stand the organized street racing. While I don't egg anyone on in a stoplight war, I have "wasted" or "smoked" a few "opponents". Most of the time I let it go unless I have a purpose like having to be in the next lane and the dork next to me at the light wouldn't let me over or something equally petty in retrospect. But gathering at an industrial park or on a low-traveled public road, at night even, is just plain dumb. The streets are not a race course. I hear about the "illegal drags" all the time in Philly and I even know of some that happen down here in South Jersey out of the way in the middle of the state forests. I have seen trailered door-slammers pulled off of trailers in the middle of no where, the tow trucks pace off a 1/4 mile and they run the cars to the other end, load them on the trailers and leave. I'm also constantly challeneged and boasted to about how I should be running at the "illegal drags" and so on and so forth. I have no time for illegal activities and getting busted for criminal speeding like that would hurt me bad. I have way too much to lose.

I realize that many people feel that the local strips are too crowded. I fail to see the crowds that they are complaining of. Many people who have complained to me about crowded conditions at even Atco are referencing nights when there isn't even a street class running. They get runs because the owner of Atco realizes that without the little guy, he has no track to sanction points events. I have had no troubles getting enough runs in for my tastes at the local tracks. I usually attend on off nights like a Tuesday or Thursday night or a Sunday morning. I would still rather run at a track because they offer security, safety response personnel and facilities like bathrooms and food. In addition, there is no squabbling between children about who won because the timing tower doesn't lie. It costs money to race at a track but you get alot more out of it then you do at a "street race".

One thing I have noticed about the "illegal drags" is that the children who run at those rcaes are there for one of two reasons, the really are dumb and were laughed off the real race tracks or they think they know whats up and have it all figured out. One kind is a stupid kid, the other is a hard head of almost any age. Either way, you can't talk any sense into either of them. Not until they turn themselves into a messy smear on the pavement. Then, when they are injured and maimed beyond repair themselves of they end up killing someone else, they all of a sudden get a clue and then its too late.

My advice to BUG is, if whomever owns the airstrip is unwilling to reliquish control for your purposes, I say you have a business opportunity. Find out what it would cost to purchase the airstrip and some of its surrounding land, find an investor or two and buy it. Get yourself some timing equipment and build some stands, a timing tower, bathrooms and a concession stand. Open up your new race track. I'd advise against charging 3 dollars per run. That gets excessive. Something more along the lines of 10 dollars for one session or maybe 4-6 hours. If people are itching bad enough you will get business. If you can't find an investor, start doing some research. Poll other "racers" by having them fill out a short questionaire. You can even have them sign a petition. I am sure that quite a few non-racers would sign a petition that gets such dangerous behavior off of the public roads and onto a place where there are facilities for safety and organization. If you want this to happen, keep at it, don't give up. Find a way to do it. If you do research and analyze the business aspect, you can present a pretty convinicng argument.

If you can get the land, an idea to raise funds would be like a share offering. Tell people that for a donation of a certain amount of money, they can own part of the track. Get a giant plaque and get engraved brass panels with contributers names on it and put it up for public display. It may not get you all the money you would need but it would get you a good deal. For incentive to contribute, you could offer a profits sharing plan. You could also try getting local businesses to sponsor and support the track. Maybe host events. It won't happen too easily at first but if you can get the track started and get interest from the community in it, it will take off. Its not easy but it can turn into a very lucrative deal.

[XFIRECHIEF]

This is just why I am happy my Son goes down to GLDW & not the streets. I hope & pray others see this & slow down on the streets. Yes, you may have a fast ride, but take it to a track. I worked in the Fire Service for 33 yrs. & have seen this wreckage far too many times. Stop before its too late !!

[MadRabbit]

In my city the police sponsor legal drags at the local track. The cops even have their own dragster.

Maybe BUG could get some sponsorship from his local constabulary?

[Jstas]

Another idea I just thought of. A friend of mine in Texas has been to a track near by him where the owner has a Street Racing night. One of the complains of alot of the children is that they can't afford the safety equipment that NHRA or IHRA sanctioned tracks require to run what thier vehicle is capable. The owner of this track has the Street Racing night and all racers are required to sign a waiver. Essentially, they race at thier own risk. The track does provide for emergency services and facilities like any other race. However, having the waivers signed by all racers lets the racers run what would normally not be allowed on the track.

From what I understand, they do not print time slips and its totally heads-up. The only indication to victory is the win light and the tree. While this is just as dangerous as your typical "illegal drags", at least it is not happening on a public road and if something does go wrong, there are people there to help and nobody has any reason to run from police and abandon the injured.

From what my friend has told me, this event has been a tremendous success. They have crazy turn-outs every time and many people have stopped running the illegal drags altogether. I suppose that there still is a liability with the track owner being responsible but I imagine that a waiver could be written to say that the owner assumes no responsibility. I know that at some local tracks around here, local ambulance squads will volunteer to staff a spare ambulance at the track for the night so that emergency rescue help is close by. All in all, an event like that is still a million times more preferable to the street. Charge 5 dollars to watch, 10 dollars to race and open the concession stands, you'll clean up!

[SVTfcs]

Let me get this strait Jstas.







:jawdrop: You've actually seen people trailer there drag racing car out to the middle of nowhere and race a 1/4 mile! :jawdrop:







I can't say that I've ever seen anything that crazy. And, BUG if you actually ever do get this going and I'm in your area, I'll have to stop by this air/drag strip. But, I live in Michigan so this probably won't be any time in the near future. Nevertheless, I think that $3.00 a run would be a great idea!

[Jstas]

I know it sound strange but its usually old guys who want to run for money. I'm not talking like 50 bucks here. I'm talking 10 or 15K just for one of them to even consider taking some time to run you. Most will run for no less than 20K. They have been doing it for an extremely long time and they are very good at avoiding police and crowds. I have never seen any punk kids hanging around them either.

I still think its stupid. I'm told that the reason they do it is because the tracks don't allow gambling.

Everybody has an excuse for racing illegally.

[BUG]

Thank you all for some great ideas. The couple of events I went to watch had nothing but a couple domestics with about 200 imports. They got in about 3 hours of racing before the police showed up and everyone left very carelessly. Then I went to a more organized planned event. Sure enough out in th middle of knowwhere shows a bunch of trailers coming thru the night. It was just that. Trailer Queens galore. Money talks with these guys, or if the pink slip is worth the run. These guys would go to a track not ruled by police and standard rules. They wouldn't race into the night and spend our tax dollars running the police out to chase them.

Chris

[Ray Ackerman]

Originally posted by BUG
Here is a topic well worth the words. Very needed education for those that think it only happens in big cities and very cruddy movies. Todays Import crowd has grown the street racing to all new levels. I myself did not see an increase in illegal street racing after that cruddy movie. What I want to ask is has anyone been able to turn there ports not used airstrip into a drag strip? I have tried and tried with no success. I even choked and gave them some numbers on the 450+ weekend racers that have events late into the night. I even went as far as providing insurance, a 1,000,000 dollar bond approval and all I got was sorry there isn't a need. If the port would have opened it then the three to four calls a night in each county for racers may go down. Less tax dollars spent I say.

What have you tried? How have you tried to shrink the racing out on the street? Have you really never street raced over the speed limit anywhere with anyone?

Chris

I was in san diego this year they have a program to stop street racing check out this site. Get in touch with them maybe they can help you get started in your area. http://www.racelegal.com click on racelegal.com.


Greg, great post.Hope someone out there is listening to you!!!

[Greg@SVTOA]

XFIRECHIEF:
I don't know if you had read about this fatal crash, it happened in Grafton, about 3 blocks away from Port Washington. What is really ironic and tragic, is that the girl who was killed.... sigh...
Her father is a GFD vol.... :(

Ray, I hope so, but I get the feeling it really won't make much difference...

As far as as anti-street racing programs, we have one of the largest in the USA at Great Lakes Dragaway. We run a bracket series for the high schoolers all summer long, and yes, they race against real cops in souped up cop cars. We instruct the teens about the dangers of street racing, and the virtues of racing in safer controled conditions with an amublance crew standing by.
We teach them that it is perfectly OK to want to engage in high performance competition, it's just that there is a right place and a wrong place to do this.
Along the lines of what XFIRECHIEF said, I spoke at length with the captain of the Lake Geneva PD right after this happened, and he said something almost verbatim to what XFC said; he told me scenes like this one are the worst part of his job, and he said he knew EXACTLY what the cop who had to contact this gal's mother and father was feeling as he contacted the parents to tell them their daughter was dead... It's the worst thing in the world.
Probably losing your daughter in a senseless accident is worse, but who's keeping score?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words... Take another look at this picture and I think it is worth a million words...
http://www.usawebcraft.com/images/crash4.jpg
That kid's life has been changed forever... Homicide by negligent use of a motor vehicle... The images of the accident burned into his memory for the rest of his days... The sight of another teen being removed from the remains of a mangled vehicle.
The lasting effect on his parents as they are certainly going to face a lawsuit... It's tragic beyond what words can say. I'm sure in the moments before this crash took place that the last thing on this kid's mind was the results of his actions changing his entire life...

:(

[grscobra1]

I think the younger generation has no idea the meaning of speed. They get Daddy to buy them an import and then take it to someone, spend another $10,000 and get all the new speed equipment put on. They have no idea what they have, how it works or handles. I was brought up having to do all my own work on cars, this gave me a great sense of pride and I knew what I had and if I screwed it up I would have to fix it up myself. This is something the kids today don't have and why some of them can not even change there own oil and filter, they always have to have someone else do it for them.

[Ray Ackerman]

I copied this from another site.......


Of course I know that many of you here in this Forum are street racers. I can't say I've never done it myself, BUT here is some news from today's local (San Diego, Calif.) newspaper.

A front page article announces a new law that makes it illegal to even WATCH a street race. Illegal to the extent of a $1,000 fine and/or six months in jail! Plus this is a CRIMINAL offense that will be on your record forever! Many other cities have almost identical laws too.

Why such a tough law? Because already this year there have been 15 people killed due to street racing just in San Diego, and many of them were innocent of racing themselves. Street racing IS VERY DANGEROUS and I think we all need to seriously reassess our atitudes about it.

There are venues other than the streets for racing. Here in San Diego there is a 1/4 mile dragstrip, and they also hold 1/8 mile timed drags in the parking lot of our Chargers/Padres stadium at least once a week, maybe more often.

Why should we continue to risk our lives and the lives of other innocent people just to satisfy "the need for speed"?

What's your opinion?

[Greg@SVTOA]

Where in San Diego is a dragstrip? When I lived there, Carlsbad Raceway was the only strip around. Is there another one now???

[Ray Ackerman]

Originally posted by Greg@SVTOA
Where in San Diego is a dragstrip? When I lived there, Carlsbad Raceway was the only strip around. Is there another one now???

I was out there in May of this year.They were using Qualcom stadium. San Deigo NEEDS a real strip.

[Greg@SVTOA]

Not really a good use of land out there. I seem to recall real estate was very valuable out there. Perhaps they could run drags at Miramar???

[Ray Ackerman]

Originally posted by Greg@SVTOA
Not really a good use of land out there. I seem to recall real estate was very valuable out there. Perhaps they could run drags at Miramar???

I seen alot of land around the Indian Casinos.... :D I was at the casinos just looking around... :D

[grscobra1]

I agree with you, we need a place for the youger kids to go to fill there need for speed. I think the street racing happens so fast and the speeds today are so high, it dosn't give them enough time to think of what might happen.
I would like to see more srips that the street racing can take place on, but you run into a brick wall when you try.
I talked to our local police and they thought it was a great idea, but when I talked to the people that could make it happen the story changed. They also thought it was great as long as it wasn't in there backyard and they didn't have anything to do with it. So how can you get something done for the better with no help:huh:

[chris95svt]

I think the younger generation has no idea the meaning of speed. They get Daddy to buy them an import and then take it to someone, spend another $10,000 and get all the new speed equipment put on.

I couldn't disagree more. This is a new era, an era where kids are getting smarter at a younger age, and are getting better paying jobs in which THEY can afford a car at a young age. I can say that because I bought my first car at 16, then by 18 I had bought my 35th anniversary Camaro Z28, right out of the showroom floor, without my parents help AT ALL. As a matter of fact, my father was so furious I had bought tha car, he almost kicked me out of the house. I was able to do this in part because of the money I was making working at Travelers in IS. Along side of my car was a 1997 BMW M3 which my co-worker had bought partly used, and was 19. I still do think that parents by their kids cars, but mostly, if you see a kid out there in a fast car, I am more than willing to bet, they bought it themself without the help of their parents. I know that I will never by my kids a sports car, but if they buy it themself, with their own money, then they deserve it. I can say that it would scare me a bit, as I was 18 and I was NOT a slow driver, with 1 reckless driving ticket, 1 racing, and numerous speeding tickets (not something I am proud of).

Now as for the street racing issue, I am from CT, the closest dragway to me is Lebanon, about 100 miles from me. This is a problem for people, especially kids who want to grudge match but do not want to drive 200 miles to prove who's car is faster. I can personally say, that I street raced, and still do, rarely, but in a safe area, where if I was going to hurt anybody it would be myself and only myself. I know this is no excuse, but it's something that I am a part of, it's fun for me and the people I hang out with, and it's very private. Nobody knows where we go, and there are NO KIDS where we go. Yes, it's dangerous, but so is racing at the track, there are dangers where ever you go, but thats the risk you take. That kid who was racing with somebody in his car, should go to prison for a long time, but I think what he has gone thru will scar him for life, that in itself is a punishment, as for the girls parents, well if it where my daughter, I'm sure I would take it differently, but it wasn't, so that is a logical solution in my eyes.

You are fooling yourself if you tell people that you don't street race, anybody with a fast car, races, it's just a question of how far you are willing to go before the race ends. You hit a stoplight with a Z28, corvette, whatever, next to you, there is nobody around, the path ahead is clear, the guy in the corvette is giving his car some gas, egging you on, you are honestly going to tell me that you will not play? Thats a question you should ask yourself... Just my 2 cents.

[Jstas]

Originally posted by chris95svt You are fooling yourself if you tell people that you don't street race, anybody with a fast car, races, it's just a question of how far you are willing to go before the race ends. You hit a stoplight with a Z28, corvette, whatever, next to you, there is nobody around, the path ahead is clear, the guy in the corvette is giving his car some gas, egging you on, you are honestly going to tell me that you will not play? Thats a question you should ask yourself... Just my 2 cents. [/B]

I won't comment on the rest of your post because I feel that you are ignoring and trivializing points that carry much more drastic consequences then you care to believe. Either that or you are overly trivializing the consequences also.

However, what I will comment on is your cock-sure attutide and how well you seem to think that you know me or anyone else on this message board. I can and will say to you that I am 100% capable of choosing not to behave in a manner that would jeopardize my life in any way shape or form. Yes, racing at a track is dangerous but I only have myself and others who also understand the risks involved to hurt. I would not intetionally hurt those who choose to compete with me. In street racing though, does the person who is trying to make a left onto main street know that you are racing? What is thier warning? Where is thier ability and freedom to choose whether they are involved in your shenanigans or not? It doesn't exist and you take it away from them because you are infringing upon someone's life in this manner that is what makes street racing wrong.

Looking at street racing as an infringment on other's inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness offers a sobering perspective. All street racers claim that "the man" is trying to hold them down. What they don't realize is that they are in the minority and thier activity has been deemed illegal and wrong for many reasons. The first one and one that could be made to stick in court is the infringing upon others rights to a peaceful existence and the ability to make thier own decisions. The second is, people get hurt. Plain and simple. If we have a chance to stop hurtful behavior and save lives then we make laws to help prevent that kind of behavior. Other reasons include wasted resources. I have seen the condition that streets that are used for the local illegal drags are in and its piss-poor. The incessant burnouts, the high-power engines tearing asphalt apart and the higher wear rates cost money for municipalities to maintain. They also have to devote police, who would be better suited to stopping drugs or catching murderers or what have you, and send them to go and break up the street races. I know many EMTs and Paramedics who tell me that at least once a month they are mopping some kid off the asphalt after a street racing accident.

Those who believe that there is no harm or wrong in street racing have mixed up priorities about the value of life, thier own and others around them. I can't try to convince you otherwise because I can see that you have your mind made up. What I can tell you is that you do not know me and alot of other people on this board nearly as well as you think. Calling everyone a liar and telling us that you know more about ourselves than we do is not a very good way to get your point across and only serves to anger those around and ultimately hurts your credibility.

[chris95svt]

However, what I will comment on is your cock-sure attutide and how well you seem to think that you know me or anyone else on this message board.

First off, you are taking this way to personally, and I, in no manner, pointed the finger at you or anybody else on this board, I am simply stating facts, if they pertain to you then feel free to comment, if not, then you have the freedom to post, but with zero experience in the matter.



In street racing though, does the person who is trying to make a left onto main street know that you are racing? What is thier warning? Where is thier ability and freedom to choose whether they are involved in your shenanigans or not? It doesn't exist and you take it away from them because you are infringing upon someone's life in this manner that is what makes street racing wrong.

Street racing is wrong, and I in no way approve of it, the street racing that is percieved on MTV and worst of all "The Fast and the Furious" is what most people see street racing as, and is the farthest from what "REAL" street racers do. A real street racer knows his limits and the limits of his car. On that note, a real street racer will not race where other people are in danger, as I pointed out in my first post, nor will he place in danger the lives of innocent people, as in racing on a street with other streets crossing or turning onto. Now I'm not going to get into the logistics of street racing because this is a very sore subject for most, but I like to protect those who do it in the privacy of our own area's, and without the problems of local law enforcement.



Looking at street racing as an infringment on other's inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness offers a sobering perspective.

I could give you many other examples of "infringment on other's inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", but pointing that to street racing is fairly lame.



Other reasons include wasted resources. I have seen the condition that streets that are used for the local illegal drags are in and its piss-poor. The incessant burnouts, the high-power engines tearing asphalt apart and the higher wear rates cost money for municipalities to maintain

Conditions will vary from area to area, and I will agree with you that this is true in some cases. But again, to point this to JUST street racers is plain ludacris.



They also have to devote police, who would be better suited to stopping drugs or catching murderers or what have you, and send them to go and break up the street races.

You mean like the police who walk up to us and tell us they used to do the same when they were younger. Park in the same area, sit back and drink coffee's watching the activities, enjoying car related conversations while watching a race or two until the next call comes in for a shooting, or Drug deal gone wrong? Or how about the EMT's in the ambulance who sit there in the ambulance and watch us partake in an AMERICAN PAST TIME? I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about how WRONG it is to street race, it's a matter of opinion, and you are against it, this is your god given right to. Street racing has been around for a long time, and people like you, or anybody else who hates the activity can go to the track that might be 5 miles from your house and enjoy it, but some of us aren't so lucky, so we just make what we can of the situation, and enjoy it. Street racing has been here long before me, and will continue on after I am out of the scene. It's a great feeling to hang out with people who are 50-60 years old pulling up with their kids and talking to them about how it used to be in the old days, it's turning into a tradition, a tradition I am proud to be a part of and will not hide from people who think it's a gross display of law breaking, murderers, which we are not.



I know many EMTs and Paramedics who tell me that at least once a month they are mopping some kid off the asphalt after a street racing accident.

Once a month they are mopping up a "KID" for street racing. That seems to be a lack of police force in your area, it's obvious that the kids think they can get away with it, and if thats the case, they will continue to die, until it gets enforced. Again, not my fault, or any other street racers fault, he is classified as a street racer, which he is not. I am not going into the ethics of a real street racer again...



Those who believe that there is no harm or wrong in street racing have mixed up priorities about the value of life, thier own and others around them.

False. False. False. But you have your mind set, no point in trying to prove you wrong.



What I can tell you is that you do not know me and alot of other people on this board nearly as well as you think. Calling everyone a liar and telling us that you know more about ourselves than we do is not a very good way to get your point across and only serves to anger those around and ultimately hurts your credibility.

You are correct, I do not know many people on this board, but I never called anybody a liar, you took this post way to personally, and maybe you need to sit back and take a deep breath and figure out why you took it to heart. As for my credibility with you, I could care less, you have a serious hate for street racing and maybe you have other motives, but whatever they are, they are in-accurate and you need to re-evaluate your take on the entire strategy that street racers are murdering/suicidal criminals that do nothing but cause harm to the community, because you are off base.

[Jstas]

You made it personal by stating this:

"You are fooling yourself if you tell people that you don't street race, anybody with a fast car, races, it's just a question of how far you are willing to go before the race ends."

I think that is directly related to at the very least, everyone who has expressed an opinion in this thread and that, includes me.

Let us define a "street racer" so that we may now determine what "real street racers" are. Is it safe to assume that one who partakes in competative actions against an opponent on a public paved causeway in an effort to determine who is the victor by beating the opponent to the end of a measured distance a street racer? Furthermore let us define a street race. Is it safe to assume that a street race is a test of variables including automotive capability and driver capability in a contest of speed by which the victor in the test is determined by the competitor who reaches the end of a determined distance first? If both of these definitions are accurate then they can be considered the definition of a "real street racer".

Now now, do not fall into the crutch of imparting divine characteristics to your bretheren by lifting them upon a pedestle based on some percieved notion that they are above others of thier ilk, just to justify and rationalize behavior that has been proven to be inherently wrong.

Now, to concern ourselves as to what a "real street racer" is, regardless of age, maturity, gender, race or ethnicity. A street racer is one who partakes in contests of speed on public roads to determine an over-all winner. That means that you and those whom you snub your nose at and look down upon as not being "real street racers" are, in actuality, of common ilk. Therefore, it stands to reason that regarless of your opinion on the matter, the simple fact remains that you and those whom you detest are one in the same. You sir, are a paradox.

Your perception of the danger seems to lack the urgency and importance that others, including those who make the laws, share. Just because it hasn't happen badly for you yet doesn't me it can't and won't.

I would dearly like to see your examples of infringement of rights and how they are related to street racing. I do not understand why it is lame. I will try to reiterate the simple concept again. You have a choice to street race, correct? If so, they you are exercising your right to liberty and your pursuit of happiness. Great! You are a human being! However, we make laws because sometimes people tend to think that thier pursuits are justifiable because they fall within the realm of rights. Rights can be debated when your actions which you attribute to rights, infringe upon other individuals rights. You had a choice to street race. You made an informed decsion. That guy turning onto main street, does he know you are street racing? Does he know that he will be a participant in your street race by the simple idea that he will be involved in a collision or avoidance thereof? Do you think that if he knew about your decision and the actions, he would make the choice not to particpate? We cannot be sure. What we can be sure of is the fact he does not know what your plans are and does not know that he has a choice in the matter to avoid or participate. By taking away his knowledge by the simple act of racing on a public street, illegally, you remove his choice and his right not to participate. In addition, everyone knows that street racing is illegal, it is safe to assume that racing will not be occurring on public streets. Eventhough that is not the case, it is the law and the guy on main street is not at fault nor liable because he had no choice in the matter. He did not have the freedom to make his choice. I do not know what is lame about the priciples that this country was founded on nor why this concept is hard comprehend but I do know that I understand it fully and it is a legitimate argument that cannot be refuted under the guidlines of all current law making bodies based on the Constitution of the United States. This is also why it is considered illegal and prosecuted as a crime and not just a traffic violation.

I understand fully that road conditions are not 100% contributable to street racers. However, I can take you to places on Front Street in Philly where potholes were formed in brand new asphalt that are entirely attibutable to street racers performing burnouts and melting brand new asphalt. In addition, the makeshift starting line has rippled asphalt and the arear after the makeshift finish line is also rippled from heavy braking. There are places where racers have collided with curbs, telephone poles, street lights, traffic signals and signs. They all have to be repaired or replaced to ensure safe and ordely flow of traffic during peak hours. How can you tell me that street racers do not contribute to the cost of maintaining the road system?

Now, concerning you police and EMT examples. I can find examples of exceptions to the rule also. What doesn't change that those police are breaking the law and inadequatly performing thier duties as police officers if they stand idly by and view an illegal activity. They are just as wrong as you are and even more so. The police are around to enforce the law and protect teh rights of all citizens. Delibratly allowing an illegal activity to propagate is the exact opposite of what is in thier job description and goes against the whole premise of a police force to begin with. As for the EMT's, they are volunteers in most cases and spectating is debatable to whether it is illegal or not. I do not see watching as an illegal activity but on the other hand, it does endorse the illegal activity and may be considered aiding and abetting.

If there is a lack of a police force in my area then how do you explain your own police force watching it happen and doing nothing to stop it? Fundamentally, it is the same thing. Also, I do believe that I live in a much more densly populated area than you. That means that the odds are the same per person but because there are a larger number of people here, the occurences increase. It's simple statistics. Any quality assurance engineer would be able to explain to you probability.

If you didn't have a mixed up priority about life then you would be able to see things from this point of view without becoming so upset and vehement about the issue.


I have already addressed your last point. However, you again assume that you have things figured out. I merely responded to your rather "off-thecuff" post and offered intelligent, well-composed rebuttals to your point. You did not respond in the same manner but rather poo-poo'ed my points and tried to dismiss me as taking things to personal. You have no argument to return. If you did, you would not have tried to discredit me as an individual but rather responded with a response like what I have given you.

I have not taken anything personally and I hope you haven't either. If you care to continue the discussion, I am more than happy to. If you feel I have acted inappropriatly and/or offended you in any way, I apologize, that is not my intent. I hope that you can see and understand my point of view. You do not have to accept it or adhere to it but trying to discredit me because I do not share your view and am capable of expressing mine is not a very good way to win friends and influence people.

[chris95svt]

I give up. I can't argue with a lawyer/therapist/police officer/ well "Dudley DoRight" who has no concept of reality. I may be a paradox, but you sir are "boring". You win I loose, there is no point in fighting with you on who is right and wrong. I am a horrible person who street races and puts everybody lives in danger, and you are a book worm who has nothing better to do than point out the laws, and wave them in peoples faces and make sure they are following them.

[Jstas]

Oh boohoo. Cry me a frickin' river!

[Speed Racer]

Street Racing is ILLEGAL and DANGEROUS

You will either get caught or get dead or influence others
either way it is your decision, just remember that either way you look at it its dangerouse on the street or the track no matter how skilled you may be!!

No matter what you decide if your racing try to make sure you have and use safty equipment and use your head not your ego!!

Now what I would do is if I wanted to race on the street I would get with the city officials to talk about holding a mini event or somthin maybe get some sponsors or somthing and have proceeds raised for some charity or somthing "like raising money for a ambulance or firetruck" But any way you go about it, remember even the most skilled drivers cant predict whats going to happen and somtimes chances taken will cost you everything!!

[chris95svt]

Originally posted by Jstas
Oh boohoo. Cry me a frickin' river! http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/headshake.gif http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/Im%20With%20Stupid.gif

[David A. Wilks]

Oh My... What is next? the WAR on Street Racing...? Give me a break!?!!!?!

These same people chiming in saying it is SO worng are forgetting about the 100,000 people who died from smoking cigarettes last year... whoops!! That is still legal. Only because the Government has found a way to get rich from it.

Lets think about the 25,000 teenagers who died last year from drug and alcohol related cases.

How about the millions of marijuana smokers who are too stoned to even CARE about street racing. Let not condone this at all.

How about the people who died in NASCAR last year?

Maybe a few people die. Its life. Its a fact of it. My good friend Died last month a week before his birthday. He was on his GSXR 750 when an 18-wheeler switched lanes in front of him going 40 mph on a freeway in Houston. Killed him instantly!! The police had the AUDACITY to report that he was most likely speeding and looked like a bike they had chased a week earlier. They reported this to the press to make my friend look bad. How about the damn truck driver who was on coke so he could stay awake... Was that ever reported...? NO!! How many people are killed from truck drivers that fall asleep each year. The stats say over 1500 per year!!

Street racing will always be here. Especially in Houston. There are over 50 shops that cater strictly to people who street race. Why??? Its BIG BUSINESS!! Each drug dealer, gang member, and high school punk has fast car. Sprinkle in a few adults and you will have over 2000 people on any given Saturday night cruising for a race.

Did you hear about the debacle our Houston Police Dept. made at a local K-Mart? They arrested 400 people for just being there. Even if you were in K-Mart buying diapers for your kid, you got arrested when you walked out. Funny thing... the Police Chief was removed and multi-million dollar lawsuits have been filed. Still we race.

Trailer cars...? Oh yes. Why drive the car and get the tickets when you can just trailer it and run it when you need to...? You are talking a minimum of $1500.00 to pull a trailer queen off the deck. Drug dealers post anywhere from $1.00 to $10K per race!! I have seen more. Side bets hit the bookie for many more thousands. Its big business and if you are a winner, you do not need any of your own money to play... just full nitrous bottles and good traction. Sandbagging... it happens. I have won more money some times just from losing the race.

Why would someone build a dual stage nitrous fed Viper that runs 10.20's at 142 mph on radials for use on the track? Anyone can drive on a sanctioned drag strip. Where is the fun in that? You can sit there and with your own stopwatch figure out who is fast. It is the grudge race where you determine the "GAME" of who gets the "Move, Lengths, or Spot" that makes or breaks the race. You can't go to the dragstrip and "Spot" someone. Its by the lights on the tree.

Look, I know it is a horrible thing when innocents die. Its terrible. Its also a good awakening for someone who is irresponsible for them to finally see the light of their actions. I go street racing because I like the excitement. I also hate the idiots who show up and act an ass with their automatic loud Honda with the Shift Light and Monster tach. Who came up with that performance enhancement...? Its all Autometer's fault. Sue them!!

On our back roads, most cops will come watch. Some will find out the assholes and arrest them so that the real street racers can make their runs and move on.

In New Orleans, the scene was Almonaster Blvd. It is a 7 mile divided road that is four lanes wide with an extra wide emergency lane. On the East side people would line up to watch. An easy two miles of cars on the shoulder.... just to watch. On the West bound side, the return lane... would be another mile or two of cars ready to race. You would cruise down the West side and pull up to someone to pick your race. If you made a race, you would drive down to the lines on the beginning of the East side and lane up. There was a guy there with a 12v Christmas tree and he would give you "Spots, Lengths or Move" if you wanted. Many were Heads up because everyone wanted to know who was the fastest.

Being King then was KOOL!!! Of course back in the day, our 10 second 5.0 turbo was the fastest Stang on the street and the Texas Turbo sticker was something Earned... not just a .50c freebie.

[chris95svt]

These same people chiming in saying it is SO worng are forgetting about the 100,000 people who died from smoking cigarettes last year... whoops!! That is still legal. Only because the Government has found a way to get rich from it.

Thank you!!!!


How about the people who died in NASCAR last year?

No but NASCAR is on a closed course where nobody dies, and if they do they don't put anybody else at risk, aside from the fact that you need millions to race?


Why would someone build a dual stage nitrous fed Viper that runs 10.20's at 142 mph on radials for use on the track? Anyone can drive on a sanctioned drag strip. Where is the fun in that? You can sit there and with your own stopwatch figure out who is fast. It is the grudge race where you determine the "GAME" of who gets the "Move, Lengths, or Spot" that makes or breaks the race. You can't go to the dragstrip and "Spot" someone. Its by the lights on the tree.

:tmb:


I go street racing because I like the excitement. I also hate the idiots who show up and act an ass with their automatic loud Honda with the Shift Light and Monster tach. Who came up with that performance enhancement...? Its all Autometer's fault. Sue them!!

Don't forget the people you meet and things you can learn from others.


On our back roads, most cops will come watch. Some will find out the assholes and arrest them so that the real street racers can make their runs and move on.

Thats a three pointer.


In New Orleans, the scene was Almonaster Blvd. It is a 7 mile divided road that is four lanes wide with an extra wide emergency lane. On the East side people would line up to watch. An easy two miles of cars on the shoulder.... just to watch. On the West bound side, the return lane... would be another mile or two of cars ready to race. You would cruise down the West side and pull up to someone to pick your race. If you made a race, you would drive down to the lines on the beginning of the East side and lane up. There was a guy there with a 12v Christmas tree and he would give you "Spots, Lengths or Move" if you wanted. Many were Heads up because everyone wanted to know who was the fastest.

Yea but your destroying the "asphalt" that law abiding tax payers pay for to drive down on..

Dave, I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for stepping up to the plate as most people are afraid to. I, as an avid street racer, hate the people who put us down and love to point the finger at every kid who dies as a street racing incident. These people have no experience and most have never been to a real street racing meet. We are all evil people to the duley do rights, and you can never win a conversation with them because reality is not in reach to them.

I said it before, street racing is an american past time, you can see it in great movies such as American Graffiti, Grease, two lane blacktop etc, and even now with the ever so lame Fast and the furious. Your perception of a perfect world where everybody will abide by the rules will never happen, let alone the rules that some law maker thought to be fit. You can sit there and wave the laws in my face but the best your ever going to get from me is a big http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/wave-finger.gif . Yes street racing is illegal, but so are other things, lowering your car, for example. modifying your exhaust, changing your air intake, tinting your windows to level where a police officer cannot see you inside the car, painting your car without notifying the DMV is a misdemeanor in my state. These are all laws that I'm sure none of you have broken right? :huh:

Keep living in your perfect world, and no matter how much you bitch, your gonna loose, street racing is here to stay.

[Jstas]

I have a question for both of you. Why do you trivialize something that you see is so right with examples of other things that are totally unrelated yet equally as wrong? You are trying to show how non-wrong the activity is by comparaing it to activities equally as wrong?

I must also point out that the system is flawed. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Scoffing at the actual law and using the excuse that everybody does it or it was immortalized in a movie is not a valid excuse for or against anything. To give you an example of the absurdity of your arguments, Anthony Hopkins immortalize Hannibal Lector in the movie Silence of the Lambs and there are still serial killers out there so we shouldn't try to stop that damaging behavior because we never will. Wait though, that's not right. We should round up all the sick people like that out there and throw them in a mental institution! It was in a movie though so that makes it ok, right? It's going to happen anyway so we just shouldn't worry about it, right?

Thats flawed logic.

Get pissy and whine and complain and tell me I am boring again. The fact remains that you haven't proven to me or anyone else yet that street racing is right. You have given me many examples in favor of street racing but you have yet to offer a valid argument for the rightness of street racing.

[chris95svt]

The fact remains that you haven't proven to me or anyone else yet that street racing is right. You have given me many examples in favor of street racing but you have yet to offer a valid argument for the rightness of street racing.

That’s because there is no point in trying to prove it to you, you are so closed minded that you have no willingness to open your mind to something like street racing. You have to be at an event for somebody to explain the rights and the wrongs about street racing, and nobody in their right mind would ever invite somebody like you to an event like that.
But to say it again, I did try to point out to you this from a previous post:

Now as for the street racing issue, I am from CT, the closest dragway to me is Lebanon, about 100 miles from me. This is a problem for people, especially people who want to grudge match but do not want to drive 200 miles to prove who's car is faster. :huh:



Scoffing at the actual law and using the excuse that everybody does it or it was immortalized in a movie is not a valid excuse for or against anything. To give you an example of the absurdity of your arguments, Anthony Hopkins immortalize Hannibal Lector in the movie Silence of the Lambs and there are still serial killers out there so we shouldn't try to stop that damaging behavior because we never will. Wait though, that's not right. We should round up all the sick people like that out there and throw them in a mental institution! It was in a movie though so that makes it ok, right

I was pointing out that it was a past time, not that it made it right or wrong. To argue with you on this matter is just as bad as arguing with a tree hugger on why to cut trees down because we need paper.. http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/headshake.gif



Get pissy and whine and complain and tell me I am boring again.

Your boring, and I'm not pissy, I am enjoying this conversation. http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/wave.gif



I must also point out that the system is flawed.

I couldn't have said it better myself. http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/idea.gif

[Greg@SVTOA]

I have been asked in private why I am "allowing" this thread to continue. Answer is simple:
It helps to read the responses on both sides of the issue, to get an idea of the mindset of the public...

Please do not attack each other personally, debate the issue at hand without insulting one another...

Thank you.

[Jstas]

You have done nothing but avoid the issue from the start by either bashing me in one way or another or telling about how horribly terrible it is that you live 100 miles from the closest race course and rationalizing your behavior upon that single point. Either way, you still have not given me a valid point that street racing is right. I don't care if you have reasons to do it. It doesn't mean that your reasons are right either. I said it was wrong, so did others. You called us all liars and then basically gave a bunch of reasons why you yourself do not make the 100 mile trip to goto a race course.

Beyond that, you told us that you were a "real" street racer and that the "kids" were not "real" street racers but rather, a bunch of "wannabes". Furthermore, after I offered an argument to define street racing to try and determine the validity of your statements, you threw a volley of personal attacks and insults at me. If you think you didn't then maybe the next time someone tells you that you are boring and need psychiatric care, tell me how it makes you feel and react.

Your arguments are based in your opinion. There are facts and logical thought behind my statements and all I ever asked for was an intelligent response from you. Yet, all I have recieved so far is they typical regurgitation of the herd mentality of all the "wannabe kids" that you despise so much. Your statements and compositions of your thoughts have been pedesatrian at best and you have done nothing but cry when offered an argument that is difficult to refute.

Now, I know what you can say as a rebutal to my argument because I did my criminal law thesis on this subject and even worked on a research project with a professor at school concerning the psychology of deviant behavior. I have been to the street races in Philly and NJ. I know very much about them and I know the differences among the various groups. I worked on the project for course credit with a teacher. It took 3 terms to complete because I was doing the field research and recruiting interviews with actual street racers. Its kind of hard for a 52 year old Russian woman to get into the street racing scene and she had asked me to be involved to gather the research. She felt that she would get much more honest answers with a younger person that shared thier interests.

I determined from my own observations that street racing is wrong and while some groups operate much more safely than others, it is still wrong for a very long laundry list of reasons. I say you trivialize it because you do. You think you have it figured out like all the (excuse the language) punk-ass ricers. You have no idea how much it has been studied and how much research is out there. I can safely say from experience from many points of view that street racing is wrong.

I will give you my experience just so you know. In addition to the scientific research I helped with in school, I have seen the damage that can be done by street racing first hand running on rescue squads. I have also been to the street races under no guise but to participate. Yes, I used to go. Not often but I did go. My experience has been fairly extensive and much more than you imagine in your skepticism. I speak from experience, not "close-mindedness". My brother works at a body shop and I have seen vehicles that were involved in collisions with street racers and the extent of the damage done.

I will again state that you do not know me or my background and I am forming the increasing opinion that you are the close-minded one. Why not try discussing the matter rather than being an annoying little thorn in everyone's side? Afterall, like I said before, the crying, whining, posturing and avoidance of the subject at hand really do not offer any positive reinforcement of your credibility. Not just in my eyes either. I'm just the only one who is not afraid to say anything to you about it.

[SVTfcs]

Let me tell you about when I got my SVT focus:
About two weeks after I bought it, I moved back to school. One of the guys I live with told me the previous semester that if I bought this car, I would have to race him in his '99 Honda Civic Si.
Well needless to say when we happend to be on the same road (driving to and from class, etc.) last term we drove slightly faster than what I would consider "normal driving conditions." Nothing too crazy, we just messed with each other a little.
I do not participate in what some people would consider "street racing." If someone starts getting out of control, I will just back off. End of story.

You drive a 2001 F-150 Lightning, Jstas, if I'm not mistaken.
So, lets consider your scenario:
A few months from now you are waiting at a red light. You're just minding your own buisness when low and behold a Dodge Ram pulls up next to you. "Hey, it's one of those new Dodge Ram SRT's!" you shout to yourself! Just then you notice that you can no longer hear your sterio over the sound of his exhaust. I guess he thinks he's pretty tough because he has 2 more cylinders than you. Here are your options:
A. When the light turns green, let it rip! Do not let off until he is in your rear view mirror or you hear police sirens.
B. Rev your engine back at him (after all that high pitch whine sounds much better than the low rumble comming from his truck). When the light turns green squak the tires a little and hang with him until your going 5-10 over the posted speed limit.
C. Completely ignore this joker because you have nothing to prove. Watch him pull in front of you and happily smile at his tail lights, while smelling his exhaust.

Ok, personally I would have to opt for answer B. I have no choice in the matter I'm afraid. As an enthusiast, I become a mere pawn to a higher power in a situation such as this. The god of internal combustion engines or something else of the like that I can not understand. And don't get me wrong, I will lose no respect for you no matter what your response is. However, I must point out that no more than a handful of true car people will choose option C.

[Jstas]

First off, you assume too much. I would choose D. Turn the stereo up. I have never had a car short of a pro-stock doorslammer pull up next to me and drown out my stereo. So, I guess I already do not fit your mold of a "true car enthusiast". I do not accept your definition or judgement however because it is a stereotype and a very narrow one at that. It takes all kinds and just because someone does not fit your own personal ideal does not mean they they are what you think they are.

As I have said before in other threads. I detest people who make it a point to get in my face with something to prove. Its a pissing contest and I have nothing to prove. I have no need or desire to prove to some one anything on any public street anywhere at any time.

My driving style begs to differ I suppose though. I do not accelerate at leisurly rates and I do drive my truck hard. I do not push its limit on the road because doing so puts me in the criminally speeding category. However, I do find that in no matter what vehicle I drive, my reaction times and willingness to push the vehicle a little harder than others often puts me so far out in front it seems that everyone else was standing still.

I do not see a need for street racing of any form because I know what I have and I know what it can do and I enjoy my vehicle for me. I have logged many miles on many roads in many vehicles in the few years that I have been driving. I have seen all manners of drivers and I have come to the realization that screwing around with racing and not paying attention to the traffic around you is a sure fire way to get yourself into trouble. Every move I make on the road is delibrate and intentional and I have no time or gas to waste on a loud mouth looking for someone to pick on just to reinforce his/her own ego.

Also, remember, I live in New Jersey. This is the land of, excuse me, for lack of a better term, assholes. Not all inhabitants of this state are that way but there is a much larger concentration here than most other places I have been. Where I live, there are also not that many roads condusive to racing on either. Narrow 2 lane roads lined with trees or the exact opposite of wide, 4 lane roads heavily travelled in dense commercial and residential areas. I also have easy access to a race track and there are 6 more that I know of within 2 hours driving distance. I have no reason, not even in the street racer's mentality, to engage in illegal behavior on public roads. I also have way too much to lose if I get caught. I have many more reasons beyond the simple rightness or wrongness of street racing but I do not let those reason taint my judgement and arguments for or against it.





Can you tell it's a slow day at work today?

[chris95svt]

You have done nothing but avoid the issue from the start by either bashing me in one way or another or telling about how horribly terrible it is that you live 100 miles from the closest race course and rationalizing your behavior upon that single point.

This again??? I am not BASHING YOU! I am bashing your opinion of street racing (ok so I said you’re boring, sorry). I never said how terrible it is that I live 100 miles from the nearest track, I said it ONCE, I was simply stating that as a fact, and a fact that has valid reason to prove why street racing is happening.



Either way, you still have not given me a valid point that street racing is right. I don't care if you have reasons to do it. It doesn't mean that your reasons are right either.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS RIGHT! Get off your high horse man... :bash: I am simply stating WHY PEOPLE DO STREET RACE.



You called us all liars and then basically gave a bunch of reasons why you yourself do not make the 100 mile trip to go too a race course.

Where in this post do you see me calling you or anybody a liar? The way you perceive the way I post something is your judgment and yours alone. Get off the whole liar bit, it's failing horribly.



Your arguments are based in your opinion.

So are yours.. :huh:



Yet, all I have received so far is they typical regurgitation of the herd mentality of all the "wannabe kids" that you despise so much. Your statements and compositions of your thoughts have been pedesatrian at best and you have done nothing but cry when offered an argument that is difficult to refute.

Give me a break! You have NO EXPERIENCE to talk the matter, you have never been where myself or Dave has been, you have never participated in an event, all you have are these psychological statistics that you pull from CNN, or Yahoo news or whatever local newspaper you pick up, you have no idea what your talking about. You pick up the paper and you read that a kid dies doing 150mph down the highway, and you immediately cry "street racers". It's the wannabe kids that fall victim to the hitting the pole @130mph on some back road racing another Daewoo, because those kids have no concept of what might happen to them if they blow a tire out, or if a car does pull out in front of them. How often do you hear in the news "1972 Nova SS Pro Street tubbed car was found in a ditch when on lookers noticed he was street racing another Camaro with the same type of modifications" You don't, and if you do, it's a shame, but the same shame as a racer dieing on the track, you take that risk, you must be willing to accept the consequences. But you will never find a true street racing equipped car racing in dangerous conditions because:

1. His car is probably his pride and joy, and wouldn't want to wreck it.

2. The money he has invested in the car, is not worth street racing on some domesticated highway.

3. He appreciates the lives of others and wouldn't endanger anybody but himself.



Now, I know what you can say as a rebutal to my argument because I did my criminal law thesis on this subject and even worked on a research project with a professor at school concerning the psychology of deviant behavior.

Shocker. :rolleyes:



I know very much about them and I know the differences among the various groups. I worked on the project for course credit with a teacher.

I am not even going to respond to this. By the facts that you have displayed here, you don't know ANYTHING about street racing. All you know is that it is illegal, and that’s not enough to make the comments you are making about street racing. Your posts seem to be aiming towards the fact that I am arguing that street racing is wrong and that I am saying it's right. I am saying street racing is wrong, I agree it is wrong, but your arguments are pointing that all street racers commit horrible crimes and infringe on ones right drink a coffee in their living room is just plain out of control.



Its kind of hard for a 52 year old Russian woman to get into the street racing scene and she had asked me to be involved to gather the research. She felt that she would get much more honest answers with a younger person that shared thier interests.

No REAL street racer would allow this. Nor would a real street racer allow a news crew, or any other sort of information sucking leech to get into the scene. Street racing is very sacred to some, and bringing people to our spots, so that they can investigate what we do, and where we do it is breaking OUR laws. This just validates my point even more; you have no idea what real street racing is all about.



I determined from my own observations that street racing is wrong and while some groups operate much more safely than others, it is still wrong for a very long laundry list of reasons. I say you trivialize it because you do. You think you have it figured out like all the (excuse the language) punk-ass ricers. You have no idea how much it has been studied and how much research is out there. I can safely say from experience from many points of view that street racing is wrong.

Again, street racing is wrong, we detriment that in the first 10 replies. And I do know how much it has been studied, I read the same information online you do, you think you’re the only one with an internet connection? Street racing is a passion I share with many other people, a passion you don't, and will never understand, and to call me a "Punk-Ass Ricer" is simply making ALL my points valid. You don't know me, you are pulling conclusions out of the air because I am a street racer so that makes me a ricer. This only shows, again, how little you really know.


I will give you my experience just so you know. In addition to the scientific research I helped with in school, I have seen the damage that can be done by street racing first hand running on rescue squads. I have also been to the street races under no guise but to participate. Yes, I used to go. Not often but I did go. My experience has been fairly extensive and much more than you imagine in your skepticism. I speak from experience, not "close-mindedness". My brother works at a body shop and I have seen vehicles that were involved in collisions with street racers and the extent of the damage done.

I hate to break it to you, but you never went to real street races. What you went to is the same as going on the kiddie roller coaster at 6 flags, you claim you went on the coaster but in fact you THINK you got a taste of what the real thing is all about, sorry, you didn't. Your brother works at a body shop, and he sees lots of cars that are involved in so called street racing, and my brother is a cop and has yet to see one real street race gone wrong. Your point? People can't drive in New Jersey, but then again, that’s nothing new. :D

These pictures were taken the ONE time I went to the track this year, funny, it's the first time I ever saw a wreck happen in front of my eyes, sad to say I have been street racing long before I went to the track, and I have yet to see an incidents..
Track Wreck (http://www.skiewert.com/Temp/track)



I will again state that you do not know me or my background and I am forming the increasing opinion that you are the close-minded one. Why not try discussing the matter rather than being an annoying little thorn in everyone's side?

A thorn in everybody's side?? You mean your side, you speak for you and yours and I speak for me and mine. I could bring on the street racers to this board and they can say how your being a close minded fool, but I won't, I am fighting this battle on your ground, if you think I am a prick then I'm sorry to hear that.



After all, like I said before, the crying, whining, posturing and avoidance of the subject at hand really do not offer any positive reinforcement of your credibility. Not just in my eyes either. I'm just the only one who is not afraid to say anything to you about it.

Right I'm avoiding the subject.. I am starting to presume that you can't read. :huh:

[chris95svt]

My driving style begs to differ I suppose though. I do not accelerate at leisurly rates and I do drive my truck hard. I do not push its limit on the road because doing so puts me in the criminally speeding category.

You need to sell your truck and by an oldsmobile, thats just sad to read.

[chris95svt]

Originally posted by Greg@SVTOA
I have been asked in private why I am "allowing" this thread to continue. Answer is simple:
It helps to read the responses on both sides of the issue, to get an idea of the mindset of the public...

Please do not attack each other personally, debate the issue at hand without insulting one another...

Thank you.

Greg,

I appreciate that, it's hard to get a point across when people lock threads because of sore subjects. Thanks.

[David A. Wilks]

I like this thread.... Every performance car Ford builds is based on Street Racing. If it weren't all they would build is "R" model cars. There would be no SVT.

Sure there are news agencies covering our racing activities. I have been on the news several times. Once while at the dragstrip getting ready to race my Viper down the track.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/61602_news_racingbust.html

Read that. Looks like a couple of Mustangs hit the news bigtime. The different tv stations come out all the time and video the events. One cameraman shot video all night long waiting for a bust. When it finally came, the police confiscated his tape and told him, "Nothing Happened here tonight.... Go Home!!"

You see... its as simple as this. There is a HUGE parking lot with 500-1500 cars on it. If those guys are sitting still minding their own business, talking smack, bench racing and comparing mods... the cops aren't making any real ticket money. So the routine is wait until the lot gets good a full with a bunch of testosterone enhanced youth... then run into the lot with three or four cop cars shouting over the loudspeaker to "Break It Up!!" When this happens, you now have a street full of STREET RACERS!! WOW!! Tickets gallore!! Now the cops can write a bunch of high dollar fines instead of a bunch of tail light infractions. Certainly puts a large dent in our Mayor's budget deficit.

So, understand... the cops are not REALLY trying to break it up. They just shuffle it a bit. They move around, because ending the War on Street Racers would be as futile as ending the War On Drugs!! There is no money gain in solving the problem. If they just left everyone alone, no problems would be had. Nine times out of ten, an accident as a result of a street race in Houston is because someone is fleeing the scene of spectating a race when the cops show up. If they did not show, no flight. No wrecks. No Problem.

[Greg@SVTOA]

Originally posted by David A. Wilks
Nine times out of ten, an accident as a result of a street race in Houston is because someone is fleeing the scene of spectating a race when the cops show up. If they did not show, no flight. No wrecks. No Problem.


Interesting...
I'm employed at a dragstrip, which is no secret by now. I have stayed out of the discussion per my first post in this thread, but I HAD to comment on this one! We keep an ambulance crew on hand at all times, as required by law, so that in the event that a racer suffers some mis-fortune at the strip, we can tend to them on the spot.

I have seen and cleaned up after so many wrecks at Great Lakes Dragaway over the years, I can't count them. We've seen death up close and personal. It happens. Is it because of a stupid driver error? Usually not... Engines explode and dump oil and coolant all over, which sends the car spinning out of control. Hoses blow off, same result. Driveshafts break and many cars do not have safety loops. Can you say "Pole Vault?" Axles break. Trannies let go. Rear ends lock up. On so on and so forth.

Point? I'd rather take my chances thrashing my hi performance car in a closed environment where there is an ambulance crew right there in case I need them, and two solid retaining walls or guardrails to keep the car from smashing into buildings, parked cars, spectators, and other objects and creatures.
That's MY choice. Is it right? Is it wrong? No matter.. I'm stating my opinon, just like you fellows have so elequently stated yours...

:D :D

Keep it civil or it's gone. :tmb:

[Speed Racer]

You need to sell your truck and by an oldsmobile, thats just sad to read.




Hey aint that one of those GM things with wheels :)

OLDSMOBILE, HEHEHE

[Jstas]

Originally posted by chris95svt
You need to sell your truck and by an oldsmobile, thats just sad to read.

Ok, this is my final post in this thread because you are completely incouragable.

Also, I take offense to this statement. It's completely uncalled for and only serves to show that you mental capacities have not progressed passed the 10th grade.

As for my driving, why don't you bring your whiney butt down here from CT and take a ride with me on my daily commute. I promise you that you will be white knuckling the "oh ****" bars in the first mile. If its raining, I may have to cover the seat in plastic incase you have an accident.

[David A. Wilks]

Look, I can certainly understand your stance on the benefits of racing at the track versus racing on the street. You know... when I race my boat, I would NEVER just take it to the river and run it by myself or even with friends present. The chances I take with it are so lethal, I will only run it when a certified medical diver, emergency response team and ambulance are present. A simple 2-4 mph wind change can destroy the boat when traveling at 130+ MPH on water or a barrel roll in a turn pulling over 5G's in a turn. Life can end abruptly at these levels of pushing it. So, I understand what you say makes you comfortable at the track.

Here is a pic of my new boat for next season... Does it look Scarey Fast...!?!?!?! Nothing like pulling 5+g's at 130 mph!!
http://www.davidawilks.com/Glyn07x.jpg

For me on the street... I am comfortable. When I drive in traffic, or even racing through the mobile chicanes on the highway... I am comfortable. What is dangerous is not what I am doing, its the fact that other people react without the benefit of knowing how to properly handle their cars. this is true. When driving at a higher speed past someone, I am past them way before they even know what happened. But most of the time it scares people and it is this that I realize is the danger in street racing or driving at high speeds on the road. I have to take into consideration that the people I am driving around do not have the ability nor the confidence I possess. Therefore, I have to drive slower and be more considerate.

There is a time to play and a time not to. When it is 2AM in the morning and there are 1500 people out to see a race, chances are those people who would be objecting to street racing are not present. When you are on a back road waiting to race, those people who object to it are comfortably sleeping their treehugging synthetic pillows. I am not wanting to intrude into their world and I wish they would stay out of mine.

As I said before, the benefits here to street racing are numerous. The business is very lucrative and the money won is large on the average. I cannot remember when I last raced for anything less than $250.00... Ironically the cost of the "No Arrest Bond" you purchase before going out on a Saturday night in Houston. This way the officer just hands you a summons to appear in court and you do not have to go "Downtown."

http://www.davidawilks.com/FlameBusted02.jpg

[chris95svt]

Ok, this is my final post in this thread because you are completely incorrigible.

I don't see how this is so, you were trying to prove to me how dangerous street racing is, and I was trying to explain to you how street racing can be fun and safe, without incident. You gave up because I'm not going to change my ways for you, and your ever so "Lawful" ways.



Also, I take offense to this statement. It's completely uncalled for and only serves to show that you mental capacities have not progressed passed the 10th grade.

You know what John, I am simply stating what people like me think of people like you. I belong to several forums and mailing lists, and to think that you can sit here and lecture me about what is right and wrong is pathetic. Besides the fact that you completely contradict yourself over and over again. You say that you would never speed or do anything that would put you in the "criminally speeding category", yet you say if I went for a ride with you I would "**** myself". Again I say, you are the paradox.


As for my driving, why don't you bring your whiney butt down here from CT and take a ride with me on my daily commute. I promise you that you will be white knuckling the "oh ****" bars in the first mile. If its raining, I may have to cover the seat in plastic incase you have an accident.

That’s great, driving like a complete moron in traffic, you are completely off base by telling me that I am putting peoples lives in danger, then by ADMITING that you drive like a lunatic in traffic.

John, I'm sorry, but your lame, your synopsis of street racing is way off track, and your contradicting stories are just proof that you have NO CLUE what you are arguing about. You keep driving like and ass in traffic, and better yet driving your truck in rainy conditions in traffic. Someday I will be reading a post on here about how you wrecked your truck and put some innocent in the hospital. John, there is a difference between people who enjoy their cars, and people own cars to say they have them. The jury is still out on you, but as for me, I love my car, I love to race it, Drive it, and preach about it. My friends and I are not crazy lunatics out to kill or hurt anybody. We have a Website (http://www.neracing.net) that we post updates and events and car meets. Your perception is misconstrued and wrong. I'm sorry.

P.S. There is nothing you could do that would make me scared in your truck, nothing. Aside from me winning first place 3 times at the local AutoX here in CT, my roommate has a 1998 Supra that puts out 850 RWHP, Supra Pic (http://www.neracing.net/machines/supralowshot.jpg) , That is the only car on this earth that has made me a scared, he pushes that car to limits on the track, that your truck will never see, so there is no way your driving could even budge me. Sorry again.

[chris95svt]

I'd rather take my chances thrashing my hi performance car in a closed environment where there is an ambulance crew right there in case I need them, and two solid retaining walls or guardrails to keep the car from smashing into buildings, parked cars, spectators, and other objects and creatures.

Greg, I agree. Most people like the security they have at the track. There are alot less variables involved, and your chances of leaving an accident alive are much better. But some don't have the luxury of having a track 10,20,40 mins from the house, thats all I am trying to say. Your opinion is valid, and your point is well made.

[Greg@SVTOA]

David, you have too many toys. :D

[Greg@SVTOA]

I just thought you street racing advocates would be interested in this news story:


STREET RACING FATALITY IN DETROIT WITH VIDEO (http://www.clickondetroit.com/det/news/stories/news-146884020020520-080529.html)

[chris95svt]

Witness Ron Koebler said that the Honda Civic and Honda Accord were racing at about 100 mph when the Cadillac pulled out.

A honda civic and a honda accord, racing down 8 mile road, I give up. :huh:

[Greg@SVTOA]

Originally posted by chris95svt
But some don't have the luxury of having a track 10,20,40 mins from the house, thats all I am trying to say. Your opinion is valid, and your point is well made.


Yea, I know what you mean. It's a 130 mile round trip for me to drive to GLD. :D

[JT COBRA]

most people wont understand but some of us would rather die racing or street racing than die from cancer or many other
things that are legal in this world rather leave doing what i enjoy

[Greg@SVTOA]

Originally posted by JT COBRA
most people wont understand but some of us would rather die racing or street racing than die from cancer or many other
things that are legal in this world rather leave doing what i enjoy

Great logic... "And take innocents with me in the process"

You want to die doing what you like doing, but everyone else can kiss your behind, right? So if you kill someone's wife, daughter, son, father, husband etc, it's ok... Because you're dying doing what you ENJOY.

Yea, I undertstand...







:rolleyes:

[chris95svt]

most people wont understand but some of us would rather die racing or street racing than die from cancer or many other

I dunno about that. Have you ever seen a fatal car accident? the condition of the body when it is pulled out? It's not pretty, can't be a good way to die, and not something I would want to subject my friends or family to. This is not the logic I was looking for :bash:

[Speed Racer]

Some people cant be reasoned with!

I am not triing to coerce anyone to share my opinions, unfortunatly they will have to learn from the school of hard knocks and that is fine, ive been there too, maybe more of us than one would think, its just so unfornate for all when someone has to learn the hard way because of a 60 second adrenaline rush.

I feal fortunate that i learned the hardway and lived thru it, i was lucky because my hardway was not tragic for anyone!!

But I was MAN enough to look beyond my EGO and relize that I was not just messing with my life but with others, and that includes the guys i was racing. One thing i did figure out tho is when some one wanted to race me I counter offer "meet me at the track and bring the pinks" and this meens to me even if its a 5 hr drive i follow thru. If i am gonna win im going to do it in style and im going to do it right, And what this means is if I win and you dont bring the slip then I can win in court.

Im not here to tell anyone what to do it is not my place, but i can share my experience with you and maybe it will help others with there issue's never the lessno matter what you do use your head think it out and dont look back and say i wish i never done that!

[Elapidae]

I was going to stay out of this but....


The key thing (and the underlying message in Greg's post above) is that street racing is done by people that selfishly don't take other peoples lives and well being into consideration.

I think the general feeling is "It's my car and my life so I'll do what I want". That "feeling" has some subtle hint of nobility to it, but it's not true. A street racer is risking much more than his or her life/property.

Even if you are completely self centered and can't see that you are endangering others, you would have to realize that if you do in fact injure or kill someone else, you'll be in prison so your original justification (I'm gonna do what I wanna do) still doesn't apply because there will be no street racing in prison.
(lot of this though -----------------> :kiss: ) so maybe that looks good to you. :huh:

I won't debate this further as it's clear that we have different schools of thought here and my opinion (that's what this post is BTW) won't change your mind.

To me it's so clear that I simply can't understand how others see it differently (perhaps I'm pig headed... I'll admit it.) It's almost like some people believe that they can do something because they saw it in a movie.

"Geee, I'm sorry I killed 2 members of your family. This never happened when I did it on my Nintendo???"

[JT COBRA]

did i say i was a street racer ???????
did i say i wanted to kill someone???????


i will say you are all killing us with your second hand
smoke am i complianing???????

more people are killed from smoking!!!!!!!!


you quit smoking i will quit racing doubt it


wish the world was perfect for everyone!!!!!!!!!


point was we all hope we die a natural death

right?????????

or do we always need someone else to blame!!!!!!

by the way i race at the track about twice a week!!!!

i am neutral to street racing and many other things in our society

that kill

it is always closer to home when its you or your family

how about for the good of society or the guy you dont know

street racing is not the biggest problem in our society

excuse me our im" PERFECT SOCIETY"

come live in the real world with me there will always be things

YOU DONT LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!

how many innocent people are killed a year by street racing???????


:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[XFIRECHIEF]

I too wasn't going to get involved in this BS either but have to.
No one wants a accident but thats why they call them accidents. If street racing was safe we wouldn't have to ask how many are killed because no one ever would get hurt. Fact is, around the country people are getting killed at this kind of racing all the time. Think about the poor family that has to live with this death, & the family of the person that caused it too, they have to live with it too. Think about the Rescue people that have to live with this scene over & over in their minds.

THINK THINK THINK

[Elapidae]

Originally posted by JT COBRA
<snipped> i am neutral to street racing and many other things in our society that kill <snipped>

That pretty much explains it.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not going to badger you. You have a right to be who you are. My guess is that you will eventually see things differently and hopefully nobody (including you) have to get hurt or killed first.

[JT COBRA]

are street racers the only people that have

" accidents"

???????????????????????????????????????


or do other drivers with cell phones in their ass

or the car pools that are too busy solving the worlds problems

or just unskilled drivers

or have you had an accident

or what??????????????????????


i suppose none of you have done anything to endanger anybody

EVER!!!!!!!

really i dont believe you maybe St. Peter will !!!!!!!!

[chris95svt]

I dunno what to say, this thread has gone outside of what I was talking about. :knock:

[BUG]

With how far this thread went I don't see the point. Driving your car is dangerous. Going 70mph on the freeway can be dangerous. Street Racing is dangerous. It has been proven that most accidents happen within 5 miles of your home on your way to or from work. So if you Street Race in a closed road or 2am you really have the same chance as going home from work getting into an accident. I have been in four car wrecks. One when my friend got sideswiped while in the right of way. the guy forgot to stop. Another when my friend was rearended at a stop light. Another when I was actually driving and stopped to wait for a car to turn and I was rearended. The last was in a work van with a co-worker driving and we stopped to let a pedestrian cross and got rearended. I have street raced many times and still have not been in an accident associated with it. So the odds of me gettting into a whole bunch of street racing accidents is not very big. I have been to over 250 late night street races with attendance over 150 cars and have only seen one car hit the rail because he didn't want to shut down when he should have.


Chris

I still say don't street race in traffic.

[OleGrayCar]

for me, street racing is a BIG NO-NO.
IMO, There is just NO reward large enough to justify putting innocent lives at risk for my own personal satisfaction.

In my case, we have an 1/8th mile track maybe 20 minutes from the house. For $10.00 you can go to T&T on any Friday night and get a half-dozen or so runs..... right in front of God and the County Sheriff. To me, $10.00 for the peace of mind to know that I'm doing so LEGALLY and with paramedics standing by is a bargain.
People can sit here and preach to you till we're blue in the face, and it's not gonna make a hill of beans' difference to you, 'coz it's not personal to you.....yet.
Maybe if everyone looked upon your actions with utter indifference, you'd feel better about it. What I think you might be missing is that several of us have been in your shoes, and we're only telling you this stuff because we were once of the same mindset as you. Then, for whatever reason, we saw the light and the lifelong penalties that can come from those actions.
To me, I value life (of others, as well as my own) more than a race....... that's all. Maybe someday, you'll see it that way too........... maybe not. But if you'll take a second and receive these words as they're intended, I hope you understand that it's not because we don't like you....... it's because we DO !!

[SSSNAKE]

In my town, Richland, WA., we have an ORV track. That's an "Off Road Vehicle" Track. They have Sand Drags, a paved go-cart track, Moto Cross and just 3 years back, someone convinced our city fathers to put in a Drag Boat area which cost about $200,000.00. The city was told how many people would be drawn to these events, somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000 to 15,000 spectators per event. Hell, we have Unlimited Hydroplane Racing here on the Columbia River and we barely get that many at a televised event. As you've probably already guessed, if the Boat Drivers didn't bring their families there wouldn't be anyone there.

The local Rodders are always trying to get the city to help out with a drag race site. But NOOOOOOOOO, drag racing brings visions of Hell's Angel type people.

So if we want to race legally, then we must drive approx. 75 mi. or we can do the Street Race thing. To tell you the truth, I'm usually the first one out there on the streets.

As far as the guy that could not believe that someone would trlr an 8 - 9 sec car to a street race must not get out often. Now that's scary. Two 9 sec cars on a road with only a white line separating the pair. If you've ever seen a 9 sec car run, you know that they usually have a hard time keeping it straight on a good strip, let alone a poor back street. These cars jump, whip, slide, spin, skid, you name it and they do it.

We have an annual race here, just about this time of the year, out on a little use hiway, near the big wheat fields. This race usually draws 1000 + visitors and a local TV station even comes out with some production cameras to tape it. (This event does not make the evening news) There will be over 200 cars lining up. Some slow and some extremely fast. It's a lot of fun. As big as this event is, you would figure that half the law enforcement around here would be there. But you would figure wrong. I've been going there about 8 years and never once has Dirty Harry showed up.

So far the event has been blessed. No accidents. About 2 years ago Walla Walla, WA opened a 1/8 mile strip on their local airport. Since then we've been running over there. It's a lot safer and just as much fun.

Well I just wanted to get my 2 cents worth in.

SSSNAKE:cbra:

[SVTbooker]

Now I will not condone nor support the arguments for/against streetracing, but I get the impression that a good number of people posting threads have never been to a race, and if they have, it was in the 60's.

My dad gets all preachy about how dumb it is too drive fast and race, etc. and he is right in his older age (55)...BUT, this is coming from a guy who used to race all the time, has told me many a story and has totalled 7 cars in his day. Granted he is right, but why should I listen to him when he did the same thing when he was younger?

Street racing is stupid, but it is still cool. War is horrible (or so I have been made to believe) and we all know it, yet we love war movies, we love thinking about fighting, etc and we love the weapons. In a war, many of us would go in a heartbeat and before you try telling me that war is justified, stick a cork in your mouth and think of what you are saying. There is not reason for street racing and there is no need for war. This makes no sense I'm sure.

Another example is marijuana. Up here in Canada, marijuana is nearly legal. If I get caught smoking a joint by the cops, they will take it way and send me on my way. They just don;t care. I have had cops drive by me, looking at me while I am smoking :cool: and no problems, they let it slide. Now, imagine if they decided to pull me over. I would pull over, but there are a lot of folks that wouldn;t. Now think how many people could die in that one cahse. Now imagine this situation dozens of time per day in thousands of cities. A lot of dead people for no reason.....maybe the cops should should turn a blind eye sometimes. If people are in some industrial area with no traffic, then what is the harm?

I will finish this long, winding, nonsensical (is that a word?) by saying that there is a lot of really, really, really really irresponsible behaviour at the races. If it wasn't a cool/illegal/taboo thing to do (like smoking pot), maybe more level-headed would be at the races teaching the young punks how to behave around others.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents (actually it like $128 in pennies---haha):tmb:

[Chuck G.]

We just had three people killed between my job and home. One person caused the wreck that killed his child in the other car and two more .I have been invited to the street or highway races to race for the big bucks with my big block Fairlane.Same story, grand prix lost control and went through the spectators death followed.We run at the test & tunes for $10-$12 a head.If you want to gamble money thats your business.Street racing is STUPID.:bash:

[chris95svt]

Another example is marijuana. Up here in Canada, marijuana is nearly legal. If I get caught smoking a joint by the cops, they will take it way and send me on my way. They just don;t care. I have had cops drive by me, looking at me while I am smoking and no problems, they let it slide.

http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/blink.gif

[Greg@SVTOA]

Great! A pot smoking street racer!

Now playing, on a public road near you!

Cheech and Chong meet The Fast and The Furious!

Just what we need! :rolleyes:

[chris95svt]

Originally posted by Greg@SVTOA
Great! A pot smoking street racer!

Now playing, on a public road near you!

Cheech and Chong meet The Fast and The Furious!

Just what we need! :rolleyes:
http://www.northeastforum.net/html/emoticons/Thud.gif

[SVTbooker]

Thanks Greg, you hit the nail on the head....In fact I am out the door to get high and race Hondas all night long!

Please don;t confuse with someone like JT Cobra -- I don't think racing is 'cool', but I don't everyone should be so quick to jump all over them.

Anyone out there ever smoked pot? How many people died before you lit that joint up?

Anyone out there smoke? Well, your 2nd hand smoke is just as lethal as a car accident, it just takes so long that no one would compare the two.

Bad examples, anyway, make love, not war.......

(and yes, I do like Mary Jane a lot....and Tommy Chong is a Canuck!):eek:

[Chuck G.]

Sounds like everyone should move to Nevada (legal weed? did it pass today?)street races . fast women (or Amsterdam I don,"t know if Amsterdam has any race tracks but I do know they have some Porsches and fast women to run your fast self down!) been there done that!:wtf:

[JT COBRA]

Funny I dont remember saying street racing was " COOL "

I fact I have probably been down the 1/4 mile at a TRACK

more times then all of you combined!!!!!!!!!!!!!


point to be made here is some can not justify street racing ????

I was curious as to how old these mentors are??????

I still suppose all of you lead PERFECT lives never threatening

a soul and go Church every sunday


this post is like going to the voting polls there is only two
CHOICES RIGHT or WRONG?????


there was a solution offered in this post "REGULATED STREET

RACING" if BUG and others could get THOSE who want it off

the REAL street to support their ideas


thanks

LOVE YA ALL

JEFF

[Greg@SVTOA]

Originally posted by JT COBRA
I have probably been down the 1/4 mile at a TRACK

more times then all of you combined!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Would you care to make a friendly wager on the above proclaimation, Jeff? :D :D


Lifetime Pass, Racing, inc

[JT COBRA]

Sure I am game !!!!!!!!

How about a heads up match in Alanta Sunday

Have about 350 time slips this year

tracks closed in MICHIGAN now

IMAGINE THAT !!!!! going to drive 12 hours to
race!!

See who ever can make it

still getting et slips!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Greg@SVTOA]

350! ooooooooohhhhh....

Let's see... The track I work for is open 5 days per week... I have worked there 6 years.... Some days I have made 15-20 passes... I run down from the tower, make a pass, park the car, run back up... :D

My timeslip total is in the thousands my friend... :D

[JT COBRA]

well 350 was for this year!!!!

but maybe I met my match ???????

:allhail: :allhail: :allhail:

still up for some dragracing???????

your track open year round???????

just how many motors is that a year????????

:huh: :huh: :huh:

I need to work at dragway but sounds like alot of exercise!!!!!

:tmb: :tmb: :tmb:


TOOO MUCHHHH FUNNNNN

JEFF

[Greg@SVTOA]

We're open from April into December, weather permitting. I said 6 years in regards to the length of my employment with them. I have been drag racing since 1977. Were you even born then? Just wondering... perhaps you are older then I think you are...

[Greg@SVTOA]

To add... I would go to GLD so much, that one day the owner said to me "You might as well pitch a tent out here and sleep on the grounds!"
Then they asked me if I wanted to help out there... Have worked my way far up the ladder. To the point where I am given "Greg days" where I can invite as many of my friends to come and race for free. The next Greg Day is Sunday, November 17th. Drive on up here and be my guest for some free racing. In fact, anyone reading this, is more then welcome to come, you just need to e-mail me with your full name so I can put you on the Guest List. :D



:bna :)

[JT COBRA]

started racing in 1981 with a drivers license

dad had me racing before that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

where exactly is GLR " raceway "

might be game for some racing on the 17TH

:bna :bna :bna

maybe a little older

thanks

always young at heart


JEFF

[Greg@SVTOA]

We're located up in Wisconsin, about 40 miles north of downtown Chicago....
http://www.greatlakesdragaway.com

Proabably a bit far for you to drive, but you are more then welcome to come and race....

[JT COBRA]

wondering what time on sunday

drove 12 hours to carolina dragway last weekend

email you greg for info did you not get it ????????

checking weather if looks good I will be there

need TIMES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Thanks

JEFF





:tmb: :tmb: :tmb:

[Chuck G.]

Hey Jeff,I was at Carolina Dragway last weekend. Sorry I didn't get to see you.I was in my ol white lightning.I thought driving 1 1/2 hrs was a long way. Cordially Chuck:haha:

[JT COBRA]

wish I knew always like to meet the people face to face

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a great time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

see you there next year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JEFF

[Waltman]

Street racing is for idiots and punks in jap rice wannabe racers :bash: . Wanna race?: Do it a the track, plain and simple.

[Greg@SVTOA]

test 1-2-3