Why is the 96-98 Cobra so damn slow?

[Neurotoxin]

Just a question...don't take it personal. This is a stock 96-98 Cobra question that I've been asking myself and have never really found the answer. This question stems from the new age GT's with a lower rated HP and matched performance in the 1/4. Why is it that the GT's are just as good or even, dare I say, better in the 1/4 than us? Do we have major parasitic losses? Is there tranny differences? How are they getting the power to the ground better? I get bothered by this because I bought my 97 Cobra last summer choosing it over a 01 GT (close pricing) believing that it was superior to it's younger brother GT. I do like having the prestige of owning a SVT but I feel like a sucker when a GT beats me down the track. Grrrrr.

[arboc96]

there are a couple o ways to look at it...first BOTTOM END TORQUE...second...the 97 cobra only has to be better (faster) than a 97 GT which it is ...when u add the 4.10 and say drag radials...a 99 to 03 GT will be no problem...the other factor...if i dare say...could be driver skill..i think it takes more skill to launch a 4-cam cobra than a 2-cam GT...that is from experiance...keep working on it...your cobra will be fast...my cobra is really just exhaust/gears/ and drag radials as far as go fast goodies...and i can run a 13.232@107+...spinning 1st and 2nd...so i really have high 12's potential...plus like U-TINK...my 96 vert with me in it is prob 4000lbs or so...

[Neurotoxin]

Thanks Kev. This Bottom End Tourque is what the new Mach 1 uses to crush 99-01 Cobra's right....? The Mach 1 stock is hitting 13.1 in the 1/4!!! Where as the Cobra's hit 13.5ish. The Mach 1 is rated at 305 @ 6,000 and 320 @ 4,250 and the Cobra is 320 hp @ 6,000 and 317 lb./ft. @ 4,750 (The Mach 1 has 3:55's). So, the abbility to produce tourque down low in the 60' with excellent driver skills and traction is much more suitable for the quarter mile than the higher HP level at higher RPM's? Am I reading you right here? Where is my torque going to be with the 4:10's?

[khaine]

okay, first gears don't change the amount of torque or HP that you produce, what they do is allow you to get into your power band faster.

next, peak HP and torque numbers don't really tell the whole story since you won't exactly be able to put yourself at those exact number...

of course kev is more the expert than I am, since there isn't a 4v in my car right now :D

[Neurotoxin]

Originally posted by khaine
okay, first gears don't change the amount of torque or HP that you produce, what they do is allow you to get into your power band faster.

Sorry. I ment to ask: At what RPM will I find my tourque peak at with the 4:10's? It'll come sooner...no?

I hear 5.0 guys saying they launch at 1,500 to 2,000 RPM. What RPM do the new GT's launch at?

Kev what RPM do you launch at?

I was previously told to launch my Cobra at 3,500 to 4,000 RPM when I had the DR's on. My best pass (14.3 @ 98mph with a 2.0 60') I launched at 3,500. Is this too high RPM?

What I'd really like to see is side to side dyno comparisons of the GT and Cobra and my own Cobra's dyno to see where my power is coming and going so's I can shift accordingly. Oh yeah, I wouldn't mind driving a newer GT to feel the difference. Kev, you think Shan will let me take her car for a snort? :)

[khaine]

best thing to do is to take your car and have it dyno'd that way you can find the torque peak and curve of your motor, then with some expert help, you can figure out where to launch etc.

there is a dyno day on May 3rd... it might be a bit of a drive for you tho :D

[Neurotoxin]

I hope to get it dyno'd after I get the gears installed and broken in. I'm trying to set up a dyno day at SHM for the Striclty Stangs of London Club (www.strictlystangs.net). We'll see.

[khaine]

Originally posted by Neurotoxin
I hope to get it dyno'd after I get the gears installed and broken in. I'm trying to set up a dyno day at SHM for the Striclty Stangs of London Club (www.strictlystangs.net). We'll see.

good luck... :haha: :haha:

[U TINK]

When all I had was a 410 gear and exhaust on my 98 Cobra.With a 275/.35/17 dr I would have to feather the clutch out from idle to get to launch with not too much tire spin.Launching a 3200 rpm is just going to set you back a set of tires.If you`re cruising around the streets and someone pulls beside you.Drop a gear or 2 till you come up with 3500rpm and let it hang.Thats when a 4 cammer starts making steam.My friend has a 2001 GT and I punish him usually on average 10 cars.We both had gears and exhaust at that time.I think you just have to go out and play with the car.Cobra`s have a sickning top end charge.Any car might kill you out of the hole,But around 100 kph they`ll see you coming on strong in the mirror!:spinem:

[U TINK]

Originally posted by khaine
okay, first gears don't change the amount of torque or HP that you produce, what they do is allow you to get into your power band faster.

next, peak HP and torque numbers don't really tell the whole story since you won't exactly be able to put yourself at those exact number...

of course kev is more the expert than I am, since there isn't a 4v in my car right now :D Soon to be Chris! :tmb:

[khaine]

Originally posted by U TINK
Soon to be Chris! :tmb:

shhhhh :)

[arboc96]

ok andy...khaine clairified my point some...the 4.10s will put your cobra into its "power band" more quickly...which is what the 96-99 and 01 cobras need!!!

launch RPM...for me depends on track temp / stickyness / my rear tire PSI (usually between 14 and 17 PSI with 275/40/17 BFG DRs) etc etc - is between 2000 and 3000 rpm...i cant define it any more unless i am at the track dragin'

taking shans car for a boot...u will have to ask her...look her up on here - WNT2DRAG

:tmb:

[BlkCobra03]

I won't get into the tech talk 'cause I don't know much about it, but what I will say is mechanically, my '97 Cobra is the best car I have ever owned, including my '03 which I've had some minor issues with, performance wise it can't compete of course, but it still runs like the day I drove it home, I wish I could afford to keep it but I guess you can't have it all.

[Neurotoxin]

Originally posted by BlkCobra03
I won't get into the tech talk 'cause I don't know much about it, but what I will say is mechanically, my '97 Cobra is the best car I have ever owned, including my '03 which I've had some minor issues with, performance wise it can't compete of course, but it still runs like the day I drove it home, I wish I could afford to keep it but I guess you can't have it all.

The guy I bought my Cobra off bought an 03 and he says the same thing. His has had a few annoyances with the 03 including orange peal paint, sagging hood liner, and odd transmission noises (dealer is moving slowly on the paint and tranny issues). To this day he say's he shouldn't have sold me the 97. I told him I would trade :D He didn't budge :)

[Neurotoxin]

Originally posted by arboc96
ok andy...khaine clairified my point some...the 4.10s will put your cobra into its "power band" more quickly...which is what the 96-99 and 01 cobras need!!!

launch RPM...for me depends on track temp / stickyness / my rear tire PSI (usually between 14 and 17 PSI with 275/40/17 BFG DRs) etc etc - is between 2000 and 3000 rpm...i cant define it any more unless i am at the track dragin'

taking shans car for a boot...u will have to ask her...look her up on here - WNT2DRAG

:tmb:

Thanks Kev. I used the same tires for my one and only time at the track and used 14psi. I borrowed them from Blownv6mustang (Milan from London). I liked them. At the beginning of the night I was getting good traction. I guess I'll have to try launching at a little lower RPM.

[arboc96]

Originally posted by Neurotoxin
Thanks Kev. I used the same tires for my one and only time at the track and used 14psi. I borrowed them from Blownv6mustang (Milan from London). I liked them. At the beginning of the night I was getting good traction. I guess I'll have to try launching at a little lower RPM.

cool...side note...those wheels and DR's Milan has...are the ones that i sold him...hehehe...so the wheels they are mounted on (96/97 cobra) are my old factory cobra wheels :tmb:

[MC1457]

Originally posted by Neurotoxin
Thanks Kev. I used the same tires for my one and only time at the track and used 14psi. I borrowed them from Blownv6mustang (Milan from London). I liked them. At the beginning of the night I was getting good traction. I guess I'll have to try launching at a little lower RPM.

I pretty much don't know my butt from my elbow on the track, but I ran a 14.21 @ 99.28 in my stock '96 with street tires at normal pressure...basically drove it in off the street and raced it. I launched at ~ 2000 RPMs and lost wayyy too much time spinning the wheels (which I'll work on at our drag day May 8).

Didn't Ford rework the heads and intake on the 4V motor in 1999 to get from 305 to 320? I know they did on the GT and went from 215/225 to 260.

[Neurotoxin]

Originally posted by arboc96
cool...side note...those wheels and DR's Milan has...are the ones that i sold him...hehehe...so the wheels they are mounted on (96/97 cobra) are my old factory cobra wheels :tmb:

That is correct! They are a lovely combination! Here they are!
http://members.rogers.com/neurotoxin/images/8-25-02-9.jpg
http://members.rogers.com/neurotoxin/images/8-25-02-1.jpg

[Neurotoxin]

Originally posted by MC1457
I pretty much don't know my butt from my elbow on the track, but I ran a 14.21 @ 99.28 in my stock '96 with street tires at normal pressure...basically drove it in off the street and raced it. I launched at ~ 2000 RPMs and lost wayyy too much time spinning the wheels (which I'll work on at our drag day May 8).

Didn't Ford rework the heads and intake on the 4V motor in 1999 to get from 305 to 320? I know they did on the GT and went from 215/225 to 260.

Nice run :)

Ford did rework the heads. They did again for the Mach1, but it's only rated for 305.? The Mach 1 heads are the same as the Marauders.

[MC1457]

Originally posted by Neurotoxin
Nice run :)

Ford did rework the heads. They did again for the Mach1, but it's only rated for 305.? The Mach 1 heads are the same as the Marauders.

There's a really good article on the Modular engine in MM&FF (http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0302MMFF_MixMatch/)

[Neurotoxin]

Thanks I'll read :)

[gcassidy]

I gotta admit, as much fun as it is just nailing it and (hopefully) pulling away from someone, that's not the point of a Cobra. Ya should be coming into a decreasing radius righthander loading the chassis and downshifting before ringing the motor (never out of the powerband) and feeling the side G's. Wow, that made me all giggly. Come on, summer!
Greg

[tntcbra]

Wow, all this talk of changes, gears, exhaust, etc.

Like was said very early on, comparing a car that is now more than 5 years old to the latest isn't exactly straight. Ford is notorious for selling the latest technology for top dollar this year, only to offer it as standard equipment two or three years from now.

That said, I don't think anyone here would argue that the single most important part of drag racing is the launch. Whether you have 500 hp and 500 foot-lbs of torque from a screaming V-8 or 200 & 200 from a small 4 cylinder, if you can't put it down, you are done!

Andy, and those of you with the 96-98 Cobras, I am right there with you. Mine is a '96 Conv but, with the exception of frame ties, the car is stock. I have plenty of fun with it and I agree that the gears will get you to the power, but what is it like cruising down the highway, even with overdrive?

My home track is Maple Grove Raceway. There, the best I've done with the Cobra is a 14.14 @ 99.67. Keep in mind, that is stock gears, stock exhaust, street tires, and a car that weighs 3860 with driver. No, I am not one of the fastest on grudge nights. But the rag sure looks good on the track!

Launching street tires is a little tricky since they can be unpredictable. The best for me is 2600 to 2800, depending on the track. But, the other thing sometimes overlooked is when to shift. Again, for my setup, my first shift is up at 6500 and the second is at 6200. That gets me right back to the start of the power. Oh yeah, with the stock gears, I only shift twice. I cross the line at 6700 in third.

A few passes down the track, and then I go looking for the next autocross!

Tim

[MZXNK4]

I'm no expert but the advice you received above is good information. My 97 Cobra dosen't even begin to come alive until around 4k RPM. At around 4600 hang on to your shorts Pal because the volcano is tearing butt!! The 4 valve get its terror from the higher revs. The stock motor is not a low end torque powerhouse like a Chevy 350 is. Tires, tires, tires, all the tourque in the world won't help if you can't get it to the road and then get it to STICK. It is fun to beat someone from time to time to keep the glow on your face. Just remember, there is ALWAYS someone faster and badder than you so don't try to be the local bad ass wanna be. Just enjoy the secret fact that your in stealth
mode. Remember, Drive safe - Have Fun, SVTOA doesn't need any more back eyes. See you guys at the 100th party!!!!

[Neurotoxin]

Don't get me wrong here, I love my Cobra and love the 4k and up power. I believe either the hp rating on the Mach1 (305) is total bs or the hp rating of my Cobra (305) is bs. I unfortunately have the feeling that my Cobra was over rated.

Anyone have any stock dyno numbers?

I'll open a new thread.

[badass98svt]

the main reason that the newer GTs are close to the 96-98 cobras is GEARS. the gt bare just geared better for their motor than the 96-98s were. i'm going with 4.10s in the spring!