centrifigal supercharger

[SVTFocus02]

ive been trying to find a supercharger that would be the best for the SVTF for a while now...a friend of mine suggested running a centrifigal supercharger...they are more efficient, and are better through out the power band than a roots style, such as an Eaton or kenne bell...has anyone heard about vortech or any other company that will be making a centrigal supercharger for the SVTF...i will be calling them soon, but i didnt know if any of you guys have tried yet

[svtlightning2k1]

Just my 2 cents.....A vortech is a great s/c! I had one on my 98 cobra and it was great. However it was not the best for low end. High end it would pull you back into the seat further and further until you hit 7k and shifted. The eaton on my L on the other hand puts it to ya from the word go! It has helluva lot more low end and ok top end. If you want to get that svtf moving at a light go with a roots if you are looking for a top end speeder go with the vortech.

Brandon

[Osiris]

I would think that for the SVTF more response off the line is what's needed most.

I'd be looking into a blower that helps in that respect.

[SVTFocus02]

i contacted both vortech and procharger today, and only vortech is in the process of designing a system for the SVTF. procharger has it on the drawing board, but they're not sure if they will put it into production. vorteck said that their supercharger will make 6 psi w/out an intercooler, and if they decide to run with an intercooler, then they will have an 8-10 psi system. also, they said that their system are designed to pull at the mid and high range. i like to have it pull off the line, but i love to blow people away further down the track
:allhail: :tmb: :bna :kiss:

[helga123]

A well designed centrifugal with intercooler would be ideal for our cars!

Given FWD, gear ratios, and the bottom end torque (vs say, an S2000) we already have, you couldn't take advantage of the Roots in 1st or 2nd anyway. Given the lag/spike common to most turbo installs (not to mention the serious underhood heat) and you've got a touch of "squirreliness" at places you don't need it either.

So, if a clean install of a properly sized/matched centrifugal can be done this could really be ideal. I would like to see if Powerdyne is doing anything, as their FRPP kit for the 'stangs did not involve running oil lines. (Always felt uncomfortable with the "pierce the oil pan and run a grease-coated tap" instruction of Company V...) Since we typically cruise at 3500+ rpm (vs. a Lightning at 2,500 or so) we've already got revs behind us when we turn up the wick. I.e., we're in centrifugal territory.

A Powerdyne type centrifugal with a nicely packaged air-water intercooler (like the Lightning's or even a mini-Igloo) would be very, very nice, no? 8-10 lbs. with a 120 deg. charge temp. would seem reasonable. Is that not a controllable 250 hp. or so at the wheels?

I quess this will all come down to what's available/what works. It seems like Jackson Racing should be first with a decent system. It's interesting that we only have 2 liters to stuff- many of the others might not have the ideal system simply because they've always worked with larger displacements.

[SVTFocus02]

i agree with you 100%...most of our torque is lower end...so, if we were get a system that gave us mid to top end, then the SVTF would easily get 240-250 at the wheels...i wouldnt push it with the psi...8 lbs max...im going to start at 6 lbs, then move my way up to 8 lbs if i decide it is not enough...this car is better off with a centrifugal rather than a roots

[Jonny Bolt]

With the SVT, we have HIGH/TALL gears. We need more bottom end torque to match up with the ridiculously tall gears. This to me was an oversight by SVT. More torque is the only cure for this, short of a whole new transaxle.

I will be seriously considering a Vortech w/ intercooler, but ofcourse, while I'm at that, I will have to find a Posi Diff and rid of this open diff I am cursed with. Another oversight by SVT.

I think all the "oversights" are thoughtfully planned. It all comes down to money..............money......................and money.

[bubba]

I believe the getrag in the SVTF does not have a case big enough for shorter gears. There is a posi out, albeit at a cost of about a grand.
And if you want serious torque go to www.focus-power.com
300hp at the wheels with race gas. and torque is available from somewhere around 2,000.

[Anthochoritis]

Yeah, but does it legal? If not, no can do...

[imajsdaddy]

talk about opening up an old @ss can of worms! 2 years n the making!

[Jonny Bolt]

I was wonderin why I was gettin emails aboutt his thread lol

[Anthochoritis]

I was bored

[deactivated]

i thought we pretty much closed this argument last time cause nothing is going to help you off the line short of a tranny replacement. The Getrag can't take shorter gears so its all a moot point.


BTW, Getrag in German means "rise up" which could also be interpreted as tall. Sounds like SVT forgot to read between the lines there when choosing a tranny. I think they were just blinded by the 6th gear.

In fact the Getrag 285 (which is in our cars) has the tallest 1st gear of ALL the FWD trannys they make. Hell even the Getrag in the Cavalier's Getrag 287 is shorter!

Furthermore, our Getrag has the lowest torque rating, for whatever that means to ya. I know stock our cars dont have to worry about this, but FI people might want to think about it.

[helga123]

It's been a few weeks since we talked blowers & the Vortech has been shipping.

Two things impress me about this, such that I would have to say this package is @ the top of my list vs. other (Jackson/Tom's) options we've discussed to date.

First, they have a very comprehensive package, including the aftercooler, larger injectors, reprogramming, etc., etc.. Read about it at www.vortechsuperchargers.com/news/02-03_focus_svt.html

Next, the street price (Central Florida Motorsports) is a decent notch under $4K for the satin version.

A claimed 10 psi aftercooled boost and "backcalculated" 276 hp. is pretty freakin' attractive, given that the system is so comprehensive & a lot less $ than I feared it would be.

Moves into my #1 slot, what do you think???

I would be interested in any tests anyone finds anywhere. I figure I've got at least 2 months here before anything resembling clean roads resurfaces, so I would like to get all the background I can.

[SVTJackl]

What's 210nm of Torque in Pd/ft? This is our tranny torque max but I don't know what the conversion works out to.:(

[helga123]

It's 155 ft-lbs in "our land".

Key on all this stuff is to replace brutality with finesse. I really wouldn't plan on modding the Focus & going out for 100 powershifting drag passes.

But my thoughts/my car today run like this:

1) I have an '02 I paid $19.2K for that's now worth approx. $12K on a trade, and I've only got 2,700 or so miles on it.

2) If I picked my mods today, they would be Tri-Ax shifter (based on what I've heard everyone say about it) @ $120, the Torsen diff. @ $600 + install, & the Vortech Max Power kit @ $3,750, and for SVTOA track work, misc fluids & pads, so for about $5K ($24K total "investment"), I think that's pretty good. Especially because I love to drive this car.

I used to surmise that the Jackson kit would make the thing like a "mini Lightning" & the additional torque with good response would be a good plan. Now I'm thinking that the Vortech boost superimposed over the existing power curve might be better (for both drivetrain & the way I drive).

Still interested in everyone's thoughts here...

[SVTJackl]

I agree with pretty much everything you stated except for the Vortech kit. If this torque rating is correct, I can see why SVT and Jackson worked together on developing the JRSC. It maxes out at 155 ft/pounds of torque. The Vortech, however, is rated at a tranny liquifying 204 ft/pounds!!! the Vortech sounds a little dangerous at this point unless your looking at strenghening or replacing the tranny. I think the JRSC is looking good to me now and it costs less to boot! I also understand that the Eaton type SC is better at low to mid acceleration than the Centrifugal type of SC like Vortech's. This is really where I need my gusto for the street.
According to bluetoy, he gets around mid 6's on his 0-60 times and mid 14's in the 1/4 mile. The Vortech, last I saw, was a little slower even though it has another 50 ft/pounds of torque and another 70 HP. Doesn't say a lot about the tractability of the Vortech. And to top it off, I heard the JRSC drives and feels just like stock with just a slightly better rush overall, which is what you want when it comes to power curves. Keep it nice and factory feeling and you know you got something done right.

Good luck on whatever you choose!

[imajsdaddy]

I know that the Jackson is low priced aroudn $2500 to $2600 correct? Has anyone looked into getting a multiple S/C discount if several are purchased at one time?

Figured maybe one of the SVTOA clubs around might have looked into it...

Might be able to pick em up for a few hundred less.

[helga123]

"Tranny liquifying" would not be cool. I may be crazy, but I still think impact (powershifting & other all 'round abuse) has more to do with the longevity than anything. The torque is 25% higher than stock, I'm not sure survival o' gears is an unreasonable expectation. Turbo Tom would probably be the guy to ask, as he seems to be the leading stress tester of the FWD community.

The fact is I don't have a clue on the Jackson vs. Vortech choice. I'm hoping more buy both & report their findings objectively, to help out the rest who are undecided.

A few more ramblings:

1) Call me crazy, but I feel like rewarding Vortech for all their development effort. Really, the cross shaft, the arrangement of the blower to the aftercooler, its heat exchanger, the injectors, the programming. It just looks like good packaging & seems very comprehensive. From the bleachers here, it looks thorough & thorough is good.

2) Given our stock compression ratio, I give double points for an after/intercooler. All these repulley efforts on Lightnings & Cobras would have serious ramifications were it not for Ford's wisdom in including the coolers. 6?psi Jackson, minus the hp to run the blower minus the loss for heating the charge, & I'm wondering what's the real deal for the $. Versus say 10? psi Vortech, minus the hp to run the blower & perhaps not much increase in charge temp (if the intake is in the fender) & I'm thinking there might be some value here.

3) And on this low end need, I think the basic cruise is pretty nicely covered with the torque we've got now. Doesn't low end to us mean 4K when we're motating anyway?? Mine sounds like a little sewing machine @ 4K begging to be let loose (because we must validate that 6K intake function regularly).

4) And again on the "first gear is too steep" thing. Around here, even pre-winter, I have yet to find a 1st/early 2nd gear (even without snapping the gearlever, which I only did once) road that doesn't have me into the TC. I could be the most ignorant driver on the planet, but I feel the current setup + more power from boost should be the cat's ass. From midway through 2nd & on up is where I want the beans.

Time will tell. Those who know should share their findings with us. That Bluetoy is happy with the Jackson package is a good testimonial from someone who paid the scratch & has lived with the result. Anyone else?

Again: Any decent magazine tests on the Vortech yet?

[imajsdaddy]

I agree I on rare occasion don't get the T/C kicking in on the icy roads in the winter! I can even get the T/C to kick in when getting on it a hair to hard with the conti's on in the summer!

I agree that the "almost stall" when driving gentle is annoying ten fold when the A/C is on. However I love the fact that I can hit 42 MPH before the rev limiter kicks in, all in 1 gear! I like the gears the way they are personally... Only thing that I think would be nice it to have a little taller 6th gear with a super charger. Kick above the 145MPH mark.

Heck add 10 to 15 MPH more with a supercharger to help push the taller 6th gear! I'd like that!